Transcription Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4, Ch.25, T.4 – Iskcon Juhu, Mumbai, 15 October 2010.

Transcription Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4, Ch.25, T.4 – Iskcon Juhu, Mumbai, 15 October 2010.

Lecture Given By His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami On 15 October 2010 In Juhu Beach Mumbai On Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4, Chapter 25 Text 44.

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami sings :

Jaya radha-madhava kunja-bihari
Gopi-jana-vallabha giri-bara-dhari
Yasoda-nandana vraja-jana-ranjana
Yamuna-tira-vana-cari

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Nitai Gaura Haribol

Jaya Prabhupada!

Jaya om visnu-pada paramahamsa parivrajakacarya astottara-sata
sri srimad abhay caranaravinda bhaktivedanta svami srila prabhupada ki jaya

ananta-koti vaisnava ki jaya

namacarya haridasa thakura ki jaya

premse kaho sri-krsna-caitanya-prabhu-nityananda
sri-advaita gadadhara srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda ki jaya

sri sri radha-krsna gopa-gopinatha syama-kunda
radha-kunda giri-govardhana ki jaya

Sri vrndavana-dhama ki jaya!

Sri Mathura Dhama ki jaya!

Sri Jagannatha Puri dhama ki jaya

Sri navadvipa-dhama ki jaya

Ganga mayi ki jaya!

Yamuna mayi ki jaya!

samaveta-bhakta-vrnda ki jaya

All glories to the assembled devotees.
All glories to the assembled devotees.
All glories to the assembled devotees.

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4, Chapter 25, The characteristics of King Puranjana Text 44.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

SB.4 C.4 T.25
upagiyamano lalitam
tatra tatra ca gayakaih
kridan parivrtah stribhir
hradinim avisac chucau

SYNONYMS
upagiyamanah — being sung about; lalitam — very nicely; tatra tatra — here and there; ca — also; gayakaih — by the singers; kridan — playing; parivrtah — surrounded; stribhih — by women; hradinim — in the water of the river; avisat — entered; sucau — when it was too hot.

Translation by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada :

Many professional singers used to sing about the glories of King Puranjana and his glorious activities. When it was too hot in the summer, he used to enter a reservoir of water. He would surround himself with many women and enjoy their company.

Please repeat…

Purport by Srila Prabhupada

A living being has different activities in different stages of life. One stage is called jagrata, or the life of awakening, and another is called svapna, or the life of dream. Another stage is called susukti, or life in an unconscious state, and still another stage occurs after death. In the previous verse the life of awakening was described; that is, the man and the woman were married and enjoyed life for one hundred years. In this verse life in the dream state is described, for the activities of Purañjana accomplished during the day were also reflected at night in the dream state. Purañjana used to live with his wife for sense enjoyment, and at night this very sense enjoyment was appreciated in different ways. A man sleeps very soundly when he is greatly fatigued, and when a rich man is greatly fatigued he goes to his garden house with many female friends and there enters the water and enjoys their company.  Such is the tendency of the living entity within this material world. A living entity is never satisfied with a woman unless he is trained in the system of
brahmacarya. Generally a man’s tendency is to enjoy many women, and even at the very end of life the sex impulse is so strong that even though one is very old he still wants to enjoy the company of young girls. Thus because of the strong sex impulse the living entity becomes more and more involved in this material world.

om ajnana-timirandhasya
jnananjana-salakaya
caksur unmilitam yena
tasmai sri-gurave namah

sri-caitanya-mano-‘bhistam
sthapitam yena bhu-tale
svayam rupah kada mahyam
dadati sva-padantikam

vande ‘ham sri-guroh sri-yuta-pada-kamalam sri-gurun vaisnavams ca
sri-rupam sagrajatam saha-gana-raghunathanvitam tam sa-jivam
sadvaitam savadhutam parijana-sahitam krsna-caitanya-devam
sri-radha-krsna-padan saha-gana-lalita-sri-visakhanvitams ca

he krsna karuna-sindho
dina-bandho jagat-pate
gopesa gopika-kanta
radha-kanta namo ‘stu te

tapta-kancana-gaurangi
radhe vrndavanesvari
vrsabhanu-sute devi
pranamami hari-priye

vancha-kalpatarubhyas ca
krpa-sindhubhya eva ca
patitanam pavanebhyo
vaisnavebhyo namo namah

sri-krsna-caitanya
prabhu-nityananda
sri-advaita gadadhara
srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda

hare krsna hare krsna
krsna krsna hare hare
hare rama hare rama
rama rama hare hare

upagiyamano lalitam
tatra tatra ca gayakaih
kridan parivrtah stribhir
hradinim avisac chucau

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: Many professional singers used to sing about the glories of King Puranjana and his glorious activities.  When it was too hot in the summer, he used to enter a reservoir of water. He would surround himself with many women, and enjoy their company.

So, a story of a spirit soul, conditioned in the material nature, is being described through this chapter. Narada Muni took pity upon King Pracinabarhicat especially because his sons, the Pracetas were so absorbed in Krsna consciousness.

Jaya Sri Sri Radha Rasabihari ki jaya

Sri Sri Gaura Nitai ki jaya

Jaya Sri Sri Sita-Ram Laxman Hanuman ki jaya

So this actually shows that when one becomes a devotee, then a personality  like Narada Muni, becomes especially favorable to their parents or near and dear ones. This is how those who are related to a devotee derive spiritual benefits.  Actually King Pracinabarhi was very much absorbed in sense gratification, in a vedic way, he was not recklessly trying to enjoy his senses as people do nowadays in this material nature. The way to gratify ones senses has been also prescribed in the vedas through the karma kanda section . In the karma kanda section, it has been described, how one can acquire piety, and as a result of his piety, he can enjoy in this material nature. Enjoying the material nature means he can fulfill his desires.  The real concept of enjoyment is fulfillment of desire.  When our desires are fulfilled,  we are happy and when our desires are not fulfilled , then we become unhappy and morose. So the Vedas are actually giving the indication or direction how to enjoy, how to fullfill one’s desire.  And the vedic way of fulfilling desire is by acquiring piety. Piety is something like subtle wealth.  Money is wealth. If you have money in your pocket, you can fullfill your desires. If you want to buy something or you want to get something, most of the time you can buy it with your money.

But there are things that even money cannot buy. The subtle material thing. Some desires cannot be just fulfilled with money, so those desires are fulfilled through pious activities. Piety is something like subtle wealth.  If you have piety  then your desires will be easily fulfilled .  So Vedas are actually prescribing that you  acquire piety and the way to acquire piety is through performing sacrifices, performing austerities, performing penances and so forth. And when one performs that, like for a king he cannot go to the forest and perform austerities, he performs yajnas and by performing yajnas he actually fullfils his or he acquires piety and his desires are automatically fulfilled.  So the karma kanda sections are giving the instructions how to perform yajna and does fulfill your desires. But those fulfillment of desires do not ultimately fulfill our actual need. Our need is not fulfillment of material desire. Our actual need is not material happiness.  Our actual need is ananda, joy. Joy is ananda , is not found in this material nature. Ananda is not a thing of this material nature. Ananda is actually of the spiritual sky.   So karma kanda can fulfill our material desires but ultimately it will lead to a point when one will see : well all my desires are fulfilled but still I am unhappy.  So that is the state of our existence in the material nature.  We are never happy.  We can never be happy. We get something, then we want something more, something else.  We see that what we want, ultimately we don’t actually want it.  We desire something only by mistake.  But actually what we need what we want is ananda which can be derived only by developing our relationship with Krsna.  But in the material nature everyone is trying to experience happiness which is a sort of reflection of ananda, material nature is the nature of suffering.  It’s a world of suffering, duhkhalayam. It’s a world of suffering.  So in the world of suffering what can we get. We can only get suffering.  But when the suffering is reduced  to some extent, then we consider it to be happiness. Dukha-nivritti. The difinition of sukha or happiness is cessation of  dukha or suffering.  We are in a suffering condition when the suffering is reduced we say yes, now I am happy .  but actually our goal is not just to reduce our suffering condition, our goal is to go to a situation  which is diametrically opposed to suffering .  it is something like darkness and light.  Like we can remove the darkness by some artificial means but that is not going to remove the darkness permanently.  The complete cessation of suffering or complete getting out of darkness will be to come to light.  We may be in a dark room, everything there is dark.  But outside there is sun.  So we have to come out of that dark room and when we are out of that room then the light is there, sun is there.  That’s why it has been pointed out that Krsna is like the sun and maya is the darkness. Krsna surya sama maya haya andhakar.  The material existence which is predominately controlled by the illusory energy of the Lord is the prison house of this material nature and this has been compared to darkness. Maya haya andhakara. But when we are in the sun,  when we are out there experiencing the sunlight there, there is no room for maya there. So we want light, we want to be in the sun.  Eternal light of joy. But in the material nature, we are in the middle of suffering condition  and what we are trying to do is constantly trying to remove that suffering condition.  And it is a struggle.  Because everyone is constantly struggling to be in that situation. prakrti-sthani, manah-sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati. The living entity with his six senses including the mind is constantly trying to exploit this material nature to derive some happiness.  But does it work? No it doesn’t work.  The only way to get out of this material nature, is what Narada muni is trying to make King Pracinabarhi understand through the story of Puranjana.

This Puranjana story is actually an allegorical story. It’s a symbolic presentation of certain facts. Here Narada Muni knew that king Pracinabarhi will not understand the direct presentation of Krsna  consciousness. The soul, how the soul is entangled in the material nature and how the soul is trying to enjoy through his intelligence and mind and gross body.  But the whole science of one’s involvement in the material nature has been presented by Narada Muni through this wonderful story of King Puranjana.  Puranjana is a spirit soul. He comes into the material nature, especially in the land of Bharat-varsha and
in this land he gets a human form of life, a body with nine gates and he presented that body as a city of nine gates where Puranjana is the king and there he actually comes across the queen of that city of nine gates.  The material nature, the predominating factor of the material nature of our material existence is the intelligence.  So this lady, the queen of this place is the intelligence and Puranjana is the living entity covered with his false ego, mistaken identity, that he is an enjoyer.  He is travelling throughout the universe, and trying to enjoy.  That’s what everyone is trying to do in this material nature.  Then king Puranjana comes to the land of Bharat varsa on the southern side of Himalaya mountain and there he gets his body, the human form and the city has been so beautifully described. That city is protected .  The queen of the city is surrounded by many, many associates, the ten senses, the five knowledge acquiring senses,  and five working senses, and then the mind and then the life air, the five hooded snakes which is actually guarding the city from any outside onslaughts, the serpent with five hoods. What is the serpent with five hoods? The serpent with five hoods is the five kinds of air that is protecting the body, that is making the body function without any difficulty. Prana, apana, samana, vyana and udana and then in this body the spirit soul Puranjana is trying to enjoy in so many ways.  And Prabhupada is pointing out here that in the previous verse Puranjana’s gross bodily enjoyment has been described and in this verse Puranjana’s subtle bodily enjoyment is being described .  Gross body and subtle body.  Through the gross body , we are
trying to enjoy through our senses gratifying our senses through our gross body. And that state when a living entity is dwelling in his gross bodily conciousness is described as the state of wakefullness jagriti or jagratah avastah. We are awake, when are you awake, when our gross body is active, when our consciousness is in the gross body , then it is the state of wakefullness, wakeful state of existence. But then it falls asleep, but when you fall asleep, then the gross body is not active but the subtle body can be active and that is the dream state.  When the subtle body is active that is the state of experiencing dreams , the subtle body is experiencing, various experiences.  He is asleep but in his subtle body he is going through various experiences.  All those experiences, Prabhupada is pointing out is pertaining to his sense gratification.  Everyone in the material nature is simply trying to enjoy with his gross or subtle body. In the gross body he is enjoying in a certain way, Prabhupada very graphically pointed out here that in the gross body Puranjana was enjoying with his wife.  But in the subtle body  he is enjoying with many, many women. He is creating many beautiful situations to enjoy with  them.  So that is the living entity’s existence in this material nature. So jagratah avastah wakefull state, then the state of dream, dream state. So that is the active state of the living entity in his subtle body.  When the living entity is awake, then both his gross body and subtle body are awake. When living entity falls asleep , his subtle body may be active, but the gross body is inactive.  But then there is another stage , that Prabhupada is pointing out.  When both the gross body and subtle body are not active,  both the subtle and gross body are inactive, that state is called susukti, deep sleep. At that point the consciousness is totally inactive. The living entity is not concious at all.

So this is our material existence. Gross bodily existence, subtle bodily existence. The meaning of our consciousness in the gross body, the consciousness in the subtle body, the dream state and the consciousness
withdrawn from both the gross and subtle body. That is the state of susukti.  At that time the spirit soul is not active, either materially or spiritually but unfortunately what happens a living entity, from that state wakes up into this side of existence, in the material nature. He wakes up in this side. But if the living entity could somehow go out from that state of susukti and wake up on the other side, then he will wake up in the spiritual sky.  But it is not going to happen accidentally. It will need proper practice  and that practice is called devotional service  – or sadhana bhakti.  When one practices devotional services, he generally becomes freed from his material entanglement and then he actually enters into the spiritual sky.  He wakes up, sort of  in the spiritual sky and he finds himself with Krsna.  So we can see that there is the material nature, then there is the spiritual nature para prakrti, apara prakrti.  Krsna’s superior nature, spiritual sky. Krsna inferior nature, the material nature and in between there is the boundary line, the boundary line is
the susukti, the state of unconsciousness, when the living entity is neither active in the  material side or in the spiritual sky.  But that state is not a living entity’s actual state of existence.  That state is a temporary state of existence. Like, anyway, there also after that also, there is the spiritual world, there is the divisions of spiritual nature, like the state of  unconsciousness or susukti again enters into deeper region as Prabhupada pointed out that one enters after death. The tamisra and andha-tamisra, a deep, deep, dark region, darkness and then beyond that there is viraja , then brahmajyoti, then Mahesh Dham , then Vaikuntha, then Mathura on top of Vaikuntha, beyond Vaikuntha is Mathura Mandala, Goloka Vrindavana. There is a specific geography, just as this material nature has his geography , the spiritual nature also has a geography. the geography of the material nature is, there is a causal ocean and the causal ocean, there are innumerable universes are floating like bubbles and each bubble is a universe. Universes consisting of fourteen planetary systems. Seven upper planetary systems and seven lower planetary systems. Such scientific descriptions of this material nature has been given in our scriptures, compared to this information modern science are just in total ignorance.  It gives such elaborate and profound  and scientific understanding of the spiritual reality.  That is the Vedas.  That’s why this knowledge is the most authoritative knowledge because coming from the most authoritative source, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Creator of both the spiritual and material nature is imparting this knowledge.  He is giving that knowledge, so there cannot be any mistake in that knowledge.  The manufacturer himself is giving the operation manual as Prabhupada used to put it. When we buy a machine, along with the machine comes the operational manual, how to operate the machine, what is the functioning, what is the structure etc. of the machine has been described, so Vedas are the operation manual of the universe given by the manufacturer himself, Krsna. Krsna gives that information. And there cannot be any mistake with that information and in this way Krsna gave the detailed understanding of the material nature and Krsna also has provided the information how to get out of this material nature. Especially Krsna’s devotees broadcast the process all over the world.  That is the meaning of preaching.  Preaching means broadcasting Krsnas information about the material nature, about the spiritual nature, our situation,  Krsna’s identity  and how to develop our relationship with Krsna and get out of this material nature.  And that’s what Narada Muni is doing to King Pracinabarhi through this story of Puranjana and he will eventually find that Pracinabarhi came to his senses. He realised what he was doing is totally undesirable, totally ineffective, and which will eventually lead to frustration and he must have experienced frustration time and time again because in the material nature, no matter how one makes arrangements for enjoyment he can never be happy because always there will be some desire that will remain unfulfilled and the main condition is actually we have forgotten our Father.  Like a child may have all kinds of play things with him but if he is seperated from his father how will he feel. He will feel in constant anxiety.

In this respect I recall one story that I once heard : a child went to a fair mela with his father and the child is very happy. He is telling the father, father give me this, give me that, and the father is happily buying all those toys and playthings for the child and the child is happy, he has so many toys, so many playthings that he got.  But all of a sudden in the mela, he lost his father. Now how will the child feel?  Although he has all his playthings, how will the child feel? All his playthings, all his toys will become totally irrelevant. He starts crying, daddy, daddy where are you?  So our condition in the material nature is like that.  But only due to our illusory energy of the Lord we have forgotten that.  We forgot that we lost our Father. And we are trying to enjoy with all these toys.  And at some point when we wake up and realise that oh my God, where is my Father?  And that is how a living entity is situated in the material nature.  But at that time, if somebody takes the child to his father, how will the child feel?  At that time, all his toys will become totally irrelevant.  He will drop all his toys and he will go and embrace his father.  So our real need is to become related to our Supreme Father, Krsna.  And when we do that , and when we find our relationship reestablished, with Krsna, then all our miseries, all our sufferings will automatically disappear.  Thank you all very much.  All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Does anybody have any comment ? Bhima Prabhu, any comment ? …

[Comment] It’s a nice story about the child, we have a business in America  in the mall and one day some young girl, she was about 13, somewhat older and she lost her parents, she came to our booth and she was so upset, she was crying.  She did not know what to do.  Going this way, that way. We just told her .. just calm down, we will find your parents.  Very true, it’s a traumatic thing to see a child in that situation and actually that’s us, we are situated in that situation.

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami : Does anybody have any question?

[Question] Maharaja, Hare Krishna.  See, in wakeful state, the body is active, in a dream state gross I mean in wakeful state gross body is active, in wakeful state subtle body is active and in deep sleep, susukti state, both are inactive.  Don’t you think even in deep sleep state, we experience that we exist.  I mean the awareness that I exist, that is not forgotten, am I correct?

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: No, when you are unconscious, you don’t, although you exist, you don’t have any awareness that you exist, because consciousness is what creates the awareness.  When you are unconscious, then you do not know whether you exist or
not.

[Question] Maharaja sometimes, then it is…

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: That sometimes is you are in your subtle body, you are dreaming.

[Question] No, no, what i want to confirm is sometimes we express that “we had a very deep sleep yesterday,” that means we were aware that we were existing.

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: You do exist, no one will decline that. Right, but you are not aware of your existence because you are not conscious.  Without consciousness, how can you be aware? You get my point?  To be aware of yourself, anything else, you have to be conscious.  When you are not conscious, then that awareness of being is not there.

[Question] Yes… That awareness of a deep sleep is after the sleep…

After you wake up. So after you wake up then you become conscious, then you feel oh, I had a deep sleep. Right, but when you are sleeping, then you are not conscious.

[Question] I have a question about that transition between the deep sleep conditions.  You say you can wake up in the spiritual world or you can wake up in the material world. So I assume, in the practice of devotional service is what inclines us to wake up in the spiritual world. Is it ever possible accidentally to wake up accidentally in the spiritual world?

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: No it won’t happen.  It may happen by Krsna’s mercy, like we wake up accidentally and waking up is totally depending on Krsna’s mercy, and we are invoking Krsna’s mercy through sadhana bhakti, the mercy of devotees are actually, will lead us to that region.  Accidentally it won’t happen, because maya won’t let us go. Another way to look at it is. Lord Shiva is standing there guarding the gate of Vaikuntha with a trident in his hand. So no tresspassers are allowed. So, one has to become qualified, being freed from the bondage of maya and surpassing the region of Lord Shiva, entering into the spiritual world.

Yes, Bhima Prabhu, give the mike to Bhima Prabhu.

[Question] Bhima Prabhu : So the pure devotee of Krsna is already, even though he might have a material body, we percieve it but he is in that spiritual world . So he is functioning  on what plane ? So what we see we think he is doing so many things,but then you say he is in another plane also.

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: What actually happens to pure devotee, or a devotee who is practicing devotional service, his subtle body becomes transformed into spiritual body. The subtle body consisting of mind, intelligence and false ego.  So when a devotee is engaged in thinking of Krsna constantly, man mana bhava, then the mind, because of his constant thinking of krsna, hes not material anymore, he is spiritualized.  Then, tesam satata yuktanam bhajatam priti purvakam dadhami buddhi yogam tam yena mam upayanti te.  So when one is constantly engaged in rendering devotional service to Krisna, then Krisna gives him buddhi yoga…. so his intelligence is purified or his intelligence is spiritualised yena mam upayanti te  by which he can come to Me because at that stage, because he is constantly engaged in devotional service, he is not in his false ego anymore. He does not have false ego.  He is situated in his real spiritual identity ‘jivera svarupa hoy krsna nitya dasa’ so at that stage, he does not have his subtle body consisting of mind, intelligence and false ego, rather at that time, his pure spirit soul is existing without the covering of false ego. So as you are saying, at that stage, he is in his gross body, but he is pure spirit soul in his apparently gross body. And that stage is called svarupa siddhi.  He is situated in his perfected svarupa, his spiritual identity. And nikhilasv apy avasthasu jivan-muktah sa ucyate when he is karmana through his physical activity, his mind and his words, when he is constantly engaged in the service of Hari, Krsna, in all circumstances, nikhilasv apy avasthasu he is a jivan mukta. So jivan mukta stage or svarupa siddhi stage is the stage  when he is in his gross material body, but he is a pure spirit soul.  But then Prabhupada is making a point here. Is his body a gross body? No. Iron in constant contact with fire becomes red hot, accordingly material body, due to his contact with pure spirit soul is spiritualised.  His body is not material, although it appears to be material, but his body is spiritualised.   Thank you.  Hare Krishna.

[Question] Hare Krishna Maharaj, does it mean, are we sleeping in the spiritual world?

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: Well you sleep in the spiritual world but in a different way. In the material world sleep is in ignorance.

[Question] Maharaja, from this deep state sleep we are going to…means taking one birth and another birth, going from one dream from another.

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: All these dreams are material.

[Question] Even up to the impersonal brahman?

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: You are not in the brahman now.

[Question] No when one living entities goes, it means going through the dreams only.

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: We will think about it when we go there.

[Question] Even when we die, we take another birth.

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: No, right.   When one dies, then the soul leaves with the subtle body. He leaves with the subtle body and then in course of time material nature will award him a gross body according to the shape of his subtle body. At the time of death he is not going to the spiritual sky, unless he is a pure devotee.

[Question] But this subtle body, Maharaja, is in a dreaming state means … everything happening in dream only all these things.

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: So what’s your question actually?

[Question] Question is, are we sleeping in this material world and we are dreaming about it, we have come to this form, one form from the other and we are going…

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: Anyway, we are not talking about spiritual world now. And  susukti and sapna and jagratah is in the material world. It is not conditioned in the spiritual world, it is in this side of the boundary, it is a material experience.

[Question] What is the current state of jagratah

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: Current state is jagratah because where are you, in your gross body, when you fall asleep, you are dreaming. Which state you were in now? You are in subtle body.  But then you are in deep sleep, when you are not even dreaming.  That is the susukti, when both the consciousness is not active either in the subtle body or in the gross body.

Okay, Yes

[Question] How to explain the outer body experience?

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: That’s subtle body experience. The subtle body goes out of the gross body. And he is experiencing, he is seeing the gross body. So that is the out of body experience.

Yes, okay.  No, perfectly okay, we still have a few minutes left.

[Question] Maharaja, sometimes even in wakeful state, we dream, what kind of state is that.

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: That’s called day dreaming.  Yes, it happens.  Like you are awake, but you are not conscious of your gross body.  You are dwelling in your subtle body. Your mind is not in your gross body, but in the subtle body. Or rather your consciousness is not in your gross body but in the subtle body.

[Question] Hare Krishna, Maharaja. Maharaja, you are speaking about ananda, happiness, so we have this verse balavan indriya-gramo vidvamsam api karsati, so that is also about material happiness and material knowledge.  So even a person who is in knowledge, he also comes to material pleasure sometimes. So my question is, is it because of pleasure potency is more stronger that the knowledge potency.

His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami: Sure, material nature is stronger than any living entity. That’s why the only way the living entity can overcome the influence of the material nature is by shelter of Krsna. Daivi hi esa guna mayi mama maya duratyaya. Krsna is actually telling us duratyaya is impossible to overcome, but when one takes shelter of Krishna, then he can very easily defeat maya.  Because Krishna is stronger than  maya and not only Krishna is stronger than maya.  Krsna’s devotees association is stronger than maya.  Like say for example if you are alone you are susceptible to fall in maya, but if you are in association of devotees, can maya do anything to you.  Say, falling into maya means breaking the principles.  Meat eating, intoxication, illicit sex and gambling.  Like when you are alone, at some point you may get bewildered and may indulge in those activities. But if you are in association of devotees, will it ever happen?  That’s how the association of devotees is considered to be stronger because the association of devotees is Krishna’s internal potency.  And maya is Krsna’s external potency. Although maya is very strong, but Krsna’s internal potency is stronger than Krsna’s external potency. So that’s why Prabhupada so emphatically told us to always remain in the association of devotees.  And never give up the association, because if you are in the association of devotees, we are safe. Even if it is a new bhakta. They will give us protection. Okay, I stop now. Thank you all very much. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Gaura premanande
Hari Haribol.

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Transcription : Lalitamadhava Dasi
Editing : Ramananda Raya Dasa