Transcription Srimad Bhagavatam C.4 Ch.25 T.33

Transcription Srimad Bhagavatam C.4 Ch.25 T.33

LECTURE BY HIS HOLINESS BHAKTI CARU SWAMI ON SRIMAD BHAGAVATAM 04-25-33 ON 1 OCTOBER 2010.

Jaya Radha-Madhava Kunja-Vihari
Gopi-Jana-Vallabha Giri-Vara-Dhari
Yasoda-Nandana Braja-Jana-Ranjana
Yamuna-Tira-Vana-Cari

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare

Jaya om visnu-pada paramahamsa parivrajakacarya astottara-sata Sri Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja Prabhupada ki jaya!

Ananta koti vaisnava-vrnda ki jaya!

Namacarya Srila Haridasa Thakura ki jaya!

Premse kaho Sri Krsna Caitanya, Prabhu Nityananda, Sri Advaita, Gadadhara, Srivasadi Gaura-bhakta-vrnda ki jaya!

Sri Sri Radha-Krsna, Gopa-Gopinatha, Syama-kunda, Radha-kunda, Giri-Govardhana ki jaya!

Vrndavana-dhama ki jaya!

Navadvipa-dhama ki jaya!

Yamuna-mayi ki jaya!

Ganga-mayi ki jaya!

Tulasi-devi ki jaya!

Bhakti-devi ki jaya!

Gaura-premanande hari-haribol!

“Chant the names of the Lord in the ecstasy of love for Lord Caitanya.”

Samaveta bhakta-vrnda ki jaya!

“All glories to the assembled devotees.”

Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.25.33:

na vidama vayam samyak
kartaram purusarsabha
atmanas ca parasyapi
gotram nama ca yat-krtam

SYNONYMS
na — do not; vidama — know; vayam — I; samyak — perfectly; kartaram — maker; purusa-rsabha — O best of human beings; atmanah — of myself; ca — and; parasya — of others; api — also; gotram — family history; nama — name; ca — and; yat-krtam — which has been made by whom.

TRANSLATION
The girl said: O best of human beings, I do not know who has begotten me. I cannot speak to you perfectly about this. Nor do I know the names or the origin of the associates with me.

PURPORT
The living entity is ignorant of his origin. He does not know why this material world was created, why others are working in this material world and what the ultimate source of this manifestation is. No one knows the answers to these questions, and this is called ignorance. By researching into the origin of life, important scientists are finding some chemical compositions or cellular combinations, but actually no one knows the original source of life within this material world. The phrase brahma-jijnasa is used to indicate an inquisitiveness to know the original source of our existence in this material world. No philosopher, scientist or politician actually knows wherefrom we have come, why we are here struggling so hard for existence and where we will go. Generally people are of the opinion that we are all here accidentally and that as soon as these bodies are finished all our dramatic activities will be finished and we will become zero. Such scientists and philosophers are impersonalists and voidists. In this verse the girl is expressing the actual position of the living entity. She cannot tell Purañjana her father’s name because she does not know from where she has come. Nor does she know why she is present in that place. She frankly says that she does not know anything about all this. This is the position of the living entity in the material world. There are so many scientists, philosophers and big leaders, but they do not know wherefrom they have come, nor do they know why they are busy within this material world to obtain a position of so-called happiness. In this material world we have many nice facilities for living, but we are so foolish that we do not ask who has made this world habitable for us and has arranged it so nicely. Everything is functioning in order, but people foolishly think that they are produced by chance in this material world and that after death they will become zero. They think that this beautiful place of habitation will automatically remain.

om ajnana-timirandhasya
jnananjana-salakaya
caksur unmilitam yena
tasmai sri-gurave namah

sri-caitanya-mano-‘bhistam
sthapitam yena bhu-tale
svayam rupah kada mahyam
dadati sva-padantikam

vande ‘ham sri-guroh sri-yuta-pada-kamalam sri-gurun vaisnavams ca
sri-rupam sagrajatam saha-gana-raghunathanvitam tam sa-jivam
sadvaitam savadhutam parijana-sahitam krsna-caitanya-devam
sri-radha-krsna-padan saha-gana-lalita-sri-visakhanvitams ca

he krsna karuna-sindho
dina-bandho jagat-pate
gopesa gopika-kanta
radha-kanta namo ‘stu te

tapta kancana gaurangi
radhe vrndavanesvari
vrsabhanu-sute devi
pranamami hari-priye

vancha-kalpatarubhyas ca
krpa-sindhubhya eva ca
patitanam pavanebhyo
vaisnavebhyo namo namah

sri-krsna-caitanya
prabhu-nityananda
sri-advaita gadadhara
srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda

hare krsna hare krsna
krsna krsna hare hare
hare rama hare rama
rama rama hare hare

SB 04-25-33

na vidama vayam samyak
kartaram purusarsabha
atmanas ca parasyapi
gotram nama ca yat-krtam

The girl said: O best of human beings, I do not know who has begotten me. I cannot speak to you perfectly about this. Nor do I know the names or the origin of the associates with me.

So, this is the story of king Puranjana. King Puranjana is the living entity. The living entity is travelling in this material nature, transmigrating from one body to another. And in course of his journey sometimes he is going up and sometimes going down. Sometimes he is going up to the higher planetary systems where he has wonderful facilities for sense gratification and sometimes he’s going down to the lower planetary system, where also they have sense gratification but they are subterranean planets, there that sense gratification is there but of a different kind.

So in the material nature the living entity is transmigrating from one body to another body and is trying to enjoy. bhramayan sarva-bhutani yantrarudhani mayaya (BG 18.61). Mayaya by the arrangement of the external energy of the Lord, Maya, bhramayan is travelling, sarva-bhutani, all the living entities, yantrarudhani, riding in a machine, yantra riding in a vehicle. What is the vehicle? This body is the vehicle. And sometimes we are getting a body, superior type of body providing higher facilities of enjoyment and sometimes we are getting a body which is subject to various kinds of sufferings.

So that is the condition of a living entity in this material nature. Puranjana was travelling and in course of his travel Puranjana came to a very special place, the land of Bharat-varsha. Northern part is the Himalayan mountains and in the southern part is the salt water ocean. And in this land of Bharat-varsha he got a very special body, the body of a human being. And in course of his travel he came across the queen of the land. This discussion is taking place between that queen. Who’s the queen? The queen is intelligence.

And here she is admitting, the material intelligence, she’s admitting that she doesn’t know what’s her origin and nor does she know the origin of her other associates. Who are the other associates of intelligence? Mind, the ten senses, then the life air, the five kinds of air which are in the form of a snake, five-hooded snake protecting the land, protecting the kingdom, protecting the body. All the functions of the body is taking place due to the activities of these five airs. Prana, apana, samana, vyana and udana. All the functioning of the body starting from respiratory system to evacuation system, all the functioning nervous system, digestive system, all these are actually being controlled by diffrenet types of air. Prana, apana, samana, vyana and udana. And this snake is very expert in protecting the city. But eventually we’ll see that how, when Kalayavana, death personified (Yamaraja) attacked, then what happened, everything fell apart. The city of nine gates, this human body was devastated. The five airs who were protecting the body so nicely had to succumb to the onslaught of Kalayavana, especially when Kala-kanyavana embraced Puranjana. Kala-kanyavana, the time in the form of a beautiful woman, embraced him. And the result is he became devoid of all his strength. Although Puranjana was very powerful, specially surrounded by all his associates, heading with the queen, headed by the queen or intelligence. When Kala-kanya embraced him, he lost all his strength, he was completely helpless and then Kala Yavan raja. Yamaraja and his associates.

The spirit soul is now taken away,(i.e.) Puranjana is taken away.. anyway that is I don’t want to get into that. The point to this purport, Kala-kanya, I’m sorry, the queen is admitting that na te vidama I do not know, vayam us / our, samyak kartaramà purusarsabha purusarsabha  means addressing him (Puranjana) as the best of the human beings, purusha rishbha the best of the human beings. atmanas ca myself, parasyapi of others. I’m surrounded by my associates, but I do not know where you all came from. And Prabhupada is elaborating on that point that in the material nature everyone is in ignorance of his origin, nobody can nobody knows in this material nature about his origin (unclear). And that’s why the material nature is known as the place of ignorance. It has been identified as avidya, it has been identified as tamasah, the dark place of darkness, place of ignorance, place of… place of illusion, where everyone is bewildered, all the way up to Brahma. We can see when Brahma was born, when Brahma appeared, although he directly appeared from the navel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the first created being in the universe, came directly from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and he himself didn’t know where he came from. He began to wonder, Brahma’s situation was like, he woke up and he found that he is in a strange place and he didn’t have any recollection of where he came from, he didn’t have any recollection of his past.

As human beings are born in ignorance, they’re, when they’re born, they don’t have any knowledge whatsoever. Even the material knowledge, they have to acquire the knowledge gradually, through their sense perception and experiences. They gradually develop their knowledge, we all have… Like when we are born, we are in total ignorance. But Brahma at least when he woke, he appeared as if he just woke up in a strange place and he did not have any understanding, any recollection of who he was. He saw himself sitting on a lotus; he saw that the lotus was situated on the Garbha Ocean.
And nobody was around, it was just him alone, sitting on a lotus, and he didn’t have any idea who he was, where he came from, and what he was supposed to do. And because he is Brahma, he could immediately get into action, he tried to figure out, “Let me find out. If I find out the stem of this lotus, then probably I’ll know; I’ll get to know where I came from.”
But in spite of a long, long endeavour, climbing down, he could not find out what his origin was. And Bhagavatam describes he came very close to the navel of the Lord, his origin, but still, he could not understand. Why? Because with the material senses we cannot perceive the spiritual reality. Unless and until our senses are spiritualised, we will not be able to perceive the spiritual reality.

The spiritual reality is not perceivable by our material senses. That is, and that applies even for Brahma. And then Brahma was instructed from within by the Lord, within and without also. From without, the indication, the direction came from the splashing of the waves on the Garbha Ocean, creating a sound, tapah, tapah, and the waves splashed against each other.
And that kind of inspired, prachodayat, inspired Brahma from within, “Let me meditate.” So then Brahma meditated, that means he withdrew his senses, projected them internally and the Lord also very mercifully gave him the Gayatri. Tene brahma hrda adi kavaye, muhyanti yat surayah: The Lord Himself gave the Gayatri Mantra to him, by playing His flute.

So Brahma meditated on the Gayatri, and as a result of that, Brahma achieved his spiritual perfection. Brahma saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face. Chintamani prakara sadmasu kalpa vriksha: He saw the spiritual sky, it’s a beautiful place, made of, the land there is made of chintamani. It’s a forest, but the trees there are kalpa-vriksha, desire trees. And surabhi abhipalaantam: there are many, many cows; the Lord is tending those cows and all those cows are surabhi cows.

And there are many, many damsels, who are serving Him. Who are those damsels? They are Lakshmi, lakshmi-sahasra sata sambramha sevyamanau. And he saw the Lord, venum kvananta aravavinda dalayataksham, barhavatam samasitam budha sundarangam, kandarpa koti kamaniya vishesha shobha. That is how Brahma saw. After he achieved his spiritual perfection, with his spiritualised senses, he saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is playing a flute, with venum kvanantam.

His eyes are aravinda dalayataksham, wide, beautiful as lotus petals. And His form is so beautiful, that millions of Cupids are enchanted by His beauty. So that is the way to perceive the spiritual reality. Also, Prabhupada explains that how the spiritual reality is perceived in different phases.  Brahmeti paramatmeti, bhagavan iti shabdyate: this Bhagavan- realization, Bhagavan perception, is the ultimate. The preliminary perception is brahmajyoti. Through jnana, one sees the brahmajyoti. Through jnana, the endeavour of knowledge, through the intellectual endeavour, one can see only the, the bodily effulgence, the blinding bodily effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.  It blinds one, just like from darkness when one goes to broad daylight all of a sudden. If a man is in a dark room for many, many days and then all of a sudden he is made to look at the sun, what will happen? He’ll just get blinded. So that’s what happens to the jnanis. They just see the light and they become blind, they can’t go any further. But the yogis, by meditating at the core of their hearts the Supreme Personality of Godhead, see Him as the Supersoul, Paramatmeti. But through devotion, when one develops a loving relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he sees Him as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma bhuta, who resides in Goloka Vrindavan.

So one can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead provided he follows the proper process. And we are very fortunate that Shrila Prabhupada, that we came across Shrila Prabhupada and his teachings. We came across ISKCON, through which, the institution through which Shrila Prabhupada has presented, made the arrangement for the whole world to receive this information which is otherwise impossible to have.

The most important criteria, the most important factor for receiving knowledge is a qualified teacher. Just books are not enough. Bhagavad-gita, Shrimad-Bhagavatam, all the scriptures have been there. Many of us even read them many a times, but what was our understanding? Didn’t understand anything. And we realised that when we came across Shrila Prabhupada.
When we came across Shrila Prabhupada, everything became crystal clear. Many of us grew up with Ramayan and Mahabharat stories, but through Ramayan and Mahabharat, what do we find? What is the destination? We find that the sages are performing austerities for thousands of years to be elevated to heavenly planets. Mahabharat is not going beyond that, Ramayan is not going beyond that, just heavenly planets.

Sarbhanga Rishi performed such austerities, Ramachandra came and saw him, met him. Sarbhanga was waiting for Ramachandra to come and when Ramachandra came, when He was in exile in the forest, then He saw that there was a chariot and there was somebody in the chariot and as soon as Ramachandra came, he just disappeared. So Ramachandra asked, pastimes, “Just who that was?” Sarbhanga said, “That was Indra. He came to take me to the heavenly planet. But I just wanted to wait for some time because I knew You were coming, so I wanted to have Your darshan.

So apparently you can see that this is the destination that has been described there is just heavenly planet.  Of course within the lines you can see that in although Mahabharath is not openly admitting that the spiritual sky but through Bhagavad Gita that becomes clear.  ” yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama” but although we may have read Mahabharata, although we may have read Bhagavad Gita many times but that did not become clear, this understanding was not clear.

But what is that region “na tad bhasayate suryo na sasanko na pavakah” where is that region.  We didn’t have any understanding, but when we read Prabhupada, Prabhupada pointed out that beyond this material nature there is another reality.  Prabhupada has made that point very very clear that our destination is not higher planetary systems the brahmanda, this universe is within the material nature and in this universe there are seven higher planetary systems and seven lower planetary systems. And in the higher planetary systems we can have superior material comforts, superior material enjoyment, but “ksine punye martya-lokam visanti”. One goes there by acquiring piety and when the piety is exhausted “martya-lokam visanti” he falls down again in this material nature, in this world of birth and death, earth planet, lower region.  In the heavenly planet there is no death as such, there is no death in heavenly planet but there is consideration of falling down from the heavenly planet as it has been described in Bhagavad Gita “ksine punye martya-lokam visanti”.

The same point also has been made in Mahabharath.  One sage, the a chariot came from the Swargaloka to take him to the heavenly planet, to Swargaloka.  Then, when he was told that the chariot has come that he has come to take him there then to Swargaloka, his question was, tell me about Swargaloka, what is so special about going there.  So the messenger who came on behalf of Indra said Swargaloka is, he started to describe that the Swargaloka is so full of wonderful material facilities for enjoyment.  There are beautiful apsaraas and (43:23) at their beck and call.  There is no old age or disease and there we can drink nectar which gives them unlimited energy, unlimited strength and there are beautiful flowers, gardens, where the flowers never wither, Parijatha flowers, they don’t wither and in this way he just kept on describing the beauty of the heavenly planet.  Then  he said, fine, you told me about the qualities of heavenly planet, now tell me if there is any disqualification and then he started to describe, yes you see when the piety, when one enjoys in the heavenly planet in exchange of that enjoyment, his piety is deducted.  One enjoys there and piety gets minus, just like you go to some place with money in your pocket and as you enjoy you have to pay, in the heavenly planet you pay for your piety, for your punya.  And when your punya becomes exhausted then all of a sudden he falls down to this earth planet, place of birth and death (Mrtyuloka) the place of death.  So after hearing that he said, I don’t need to go there.  If some day I have to come back again, then what is the point in going there, rather I will go to some place where, from where I will never have to come back again.  So that is, that shows that he was an intelligent person.

Now like we can consider that we have been very fortunate to have that information first-hand from Srila Prabhupada.  Srila Prabhupada actually made it very very clear, that the destination, ultimate destination is not higher planetary system and Prabhupada very graphically described it.  It is like in a prison house, you get promoted into becoming a first class prisoner.  What is the big deal about becoming a first class prisoner, you are already in the prison house.  First class prisoner, second class prisoner, third class prisoner, fifth class prisoner, you are in a prison.

In the first class prison you may have some facilities but is that a desirable destination?.  No.  So the thing is the goal of life is to get out of this material nature.  Systematically, these points have been very, very precisely defined like, through Sankhya philosophy this has been defined Sankhya analyses the material nature to do (46:37)___ consideration goes all the way up to Mahatattva, five elements of the creation, pancha mahabooth, panchendriya, pancha karmendriya, then pancha vishaya, five kinds of objects of the senses, twenty, then mind, intelligence, and false ego, then mahatattva.  The whole material nature has been analyzed.  The Sankhya, the goal of Sankhya is not just to analyze the material nature.  The goal of Sankhya is to transcend the material nature.  That is what Sankhya is meant.
After twenty four consideration that we may be considering, they are all subjective, I’m sorry.  They are all objective by nature.  But the object cannot exist without the subject.  So what is the subject?  The subject is I.  I am here, that is why the material nature is here.  So everything is, all these is dependent upon my existence here.  So I, so who is that I.  Where does that I comes from.  Obviously the I did not come from the material nature.  I came from, the soul came from another reality.

So the 25th scientific consideration of Sankhya is jivatma and the 26th consideration is paramatma or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Krishna presents the Sankhya philosophy in a very, very concise form in Bhagavad Gita.  The same point Krishna is making “bhumir apo analo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca ahankara itiyam me bhinna prakritir astadha.

“Sankhya philosophy describes, analyzes the twenty four considerations.  Krishna did it only with eight considerations, earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligene and false ego.  “bhinnna prakritir astadha”.  But then Krishna makes the point.  “apareyam itas tv anyam” this nature is inferior.  This material nature consisting of eight elements, eight objects, eight considerations is “apara”, inferior.  “prakrtim viddhi me param” know it well that there is another reality beyond this inferior material nature which is my superior energy, my superior nature and “jiva-bhutam maha-baho yayedam dharyate jagat”.  The jiva-bhutam, the living entities are coming from that superior nature and they are “yayedam dharyate jagat”.  They are sustaining this material nature and they are exploiting this material nature.

And Prabhupada makes the point even more simply.  Prabhupada is making the point that around us we see two types of objects.  One is inert matter and the other is the living being.  In this room we can see, some objects are inert, like this microphone, this table, this seat, the floor, the walls, the pillars, they are all made of inferior, rather they are inert matter. But we all, are we inert ? We are living.  Although the bodies are made of matter, but these bodies are living bodies.  What causes the bodies to be alive, what causes some bodies to be alive ?  And that is the question.

Prabhupada made that point when he went to M.I.T.in Boston. They very proudly, they showed different departments of the institue, the Massachusets Institute Of Technology. And at the end of the tour Prabhupada asked : “Where is the department that discriminates between the dead body and the living body, studies the difference between the dead body and the living body. That is the subject that Prabhupada came to teach us. And we are very fortunate that we have been exposed to those teachings.  This verse, although it is saying that she did not know where she came for, what was her origin, but actually we can say.  We are very fortunate to know, we are very fortunate that we know where we came from.  That is Prabhupada’s mercy, that is our good fortune. We know where we came from.  We know that the spirit soul came from the spiritual sky.  The spirit soul is a part and parcel of Krishna  And therefore as a spirit soul we must develop our relationship with Krishna.  Because the existence of the part is in its.., the perfection or the utility of the existence of a part lies in its connection with the whole.

Srila Prabhupada again makes that point very simply.  This little finger is a part of my body.  And as a part of this body, this little finger is so important. But if the litlle finger is cut off and is lying on the floor, will this finger have any value? No. The utility or the value of the finger lies in its connection with the whole body.  When it is a part of this body it is so important, but when it is seperated from the body, it is meaningless, it is useless.

Now the question is, how can a part become connected to the whole ? Here also Prabhupada gives a very wonderful example.  A tree has many, many, innumerable leaves.  But each single leaf is connected to the tree, for what? Because each single leaf is doing something for the sake of the tree. It is transforming the food into energy for the tree, with the rays of the sun, with the medium of the chlorophyl.  Now when the leaf stops to serve the tree, what happens?  It falls out of the tree.  So, what is the link ?  What is the criteria that makes a part become connected to the whole?  What makes that link ? Service.  So, we are separated from Krishna today, why ?  Because we stopped to serve Him. Now if we want to reestablish our connection with Krishna, then we simply have to start to serve Him.

If a leaf that has fallen out of the tree somehow or other it can begin to serve the tree again.  A leaf cannot do that but we can. That is our prerogative that we have.  A leaf that has fallen out of the tree cannot become reconnected to the tree. But we, the living entities, as parts and parcels of Krishna have the prerogative.  It is up to our own volition, up to our own desire, up to our own will.  If we want to serve Krishna we can serve Krishna and by serving Krishna we can become connected to Krishna.

And this is the advantage of coming accross a right teacher.  What does a good teacher do ?  The good teacher makes the subject very simple.  And that’s what Prabhupada did for us.  Allthough we are all dull headed, products of Kali-yuga. But by Prabhupada’s mercy this very complex knowledge.  “na te viduh sura-ganah prabhavarca maharsayah” Even the suras, the demi-gods do not understand this topic. Maharsayah, the great sages, they cannot understand this.  But this has been so easily understood, this has been so easily conceived, simply by Srila Prabhupada’s mercy.

And now it is up to us how we are going to utilize this knowledge.  How we are going to practically apply this knowledge in our own life. Theoretical understanding is important, but theoretical understanding is not everything. The ultimate culmination of knowledge is in its proper application.  And there comes the sadhana bhakti, we have to practise, that’s why we are all here, practising. And we know that if we properly practise this process, some day we will achieve perfection, no doubt about it.  When ? It does not matter.  But let’s keep on practising. Because when you practise, the process is so wonderful.

Again Prabhupada made another point here.  For us it does not really matter whether we are here or in the spiritual sky. Because when we will go to the spiritual sky, what will you do ?  If we become elevated to the spiritual sky now, what will we do there ? We will be doing whatever we are doing now. So what is the difference?  Therefore, for a devotee, he is perfectly situated wherever he is.  But what really matters, is the mercy of a pure devotee of the Lord.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!  Gaura Premanande! Hari Haribol!

Does anyone have any question ? Yes, Devakinandana Prabhu.

[Question Unclear]  Maharaja, I can understand that…In the translation this girl says…  I do not know who has begotten me.. And in the purport Srila Prabhupada says that the living entity is ignorant of his origin. Here in this whole thing the living entity is Puranjana and this girl is the intelligence.. Now Prabhupada says the living entity is ignorant of its origin.

BCS : Well, Prabhupada is actually, although here this particular aspect is the intelligence which will be clear afterwards. But Prabhupada is taking the condition of the living entity in the material nature and in the purport he is explaining that. Prabhupada is not really going into that, the intelligence aspect.. Prabhupada is pointing out that in the material nature nobody…  She actually makes the point. Me and others.  That others can include not only her associates… The ‘others’ can also include the living entity..

BCS: Yes, Bhakta Rupa Prabhu

Question : The living entity approaches the intelligence to try to find out what is his origin and the intelligence comes up with nothing. [Laughter BCS: Yes, that’s also..] Is it not that what is going on here in this story? Anyway, my question.  You have very nicely presented this description of svarga loka. It seems that svarga loka is a big, big, devious conspiracy to attract those who are able to …

BCS : Those who did not come in contact with a bonafide spiritual master.

Question [continued] These messengers that are coming to take the people to svarga loka, do they know that they are part of a conspiracy ?  Or are they just…

BCS : No, no, they are also bewildered… For example when Indra sees that someone is performing great austerities or somebody is performing asvamedha yajna, he becomes concerned, he becomes worried that the person will come and take over my position.  And he makes all kinds of devious arrangements to dissuade the person from doing that. He sends apsaras or he makes different kinds of… he steals the horses like in the case of Prithu Maharaja.  So he is also in equally ignorance, Indra in the heavenly planets, he also is in equal ignorance.

Question continued : So, it is not that they are intentionally cheating, thhey are actually doing for their own good, they are just trying to keep  their own position…,

BCS :  The thought that comes to my mind, as an example, is that there are big, big institutes of management.  They are very sincerely teaching everybody how to be succesful in the material nature, right ? And at the end of the day they don’t really have the information, they don’t have the knowledge… They are sincerely trying to make people elevated to that position, thinking that that is the ultimate goal of life.  The residents of the heavenly planets are also in a similar situation. They are thinking that elevation to the heavenly planets is the ultimate goal of life, because they don’t have proper informations about the spiritual reality.

Question continued : Even Indra ?

BCS : You see, Indra is a devotee of some sort.  But he is a karma misra bhakta, he is not a suddha bhakta, meaning, he is still concerned about material enjoyment.  He thinks by rendering service to Krishna, by acting as Krishna’s agent or Vishnu’s agent, he is going to have his desires  fullfilled. He doesn’t know the fact of ‘anyabhilasita sunyam jnana karmad anavritam’.  He is very much caught up with the karma-aspect of life.  Thank you.

Question :  Hare Krishna, Maharaja. You said a good teacher presents the matter in a very simple way.  So, you presented everything in a very simple way. Thank you for that. [BCS : [Laughter] All glories to Srila Prabhupada]. Maharaja, you said that we are very much fortunate, that at least we know where we have come from, that at least we know where we come from. The question is there now.  People say we come from the spiritual sky, from the Vaikuntha and there are a group of devotees who will say that we come from the body of Maha-Vishnu.  This understanding is there that we fell down and again we come back to the body of Maha-Vishnu, and again fall back and again go to the body of Mahavishnu. That is okay. The original source is the body of Maha-Vishnu. Still that confusion will be there that where I have come from..

My immediate response to that will be, let’s not waste our time.  And it is actually Prabhupada’s warning…  Because Prabhupada told us emphatically, don’t waste time… During Prabhupada’s time also there was that consideration, not exactly Maha-Vishnu.  Whether the living entity comes from Krishna Loka or whether the living entity comes from the Brahma Jyoti.  Prabhupada said, “Don’t waste your time”.  Because you will never be able to undestand where you came from, because our cause of fall down is not in the material nature.  Our cause of our fall down or our origin is not in the material nature, it is in the spiritual sky.  Now again, to go back to Somebody once who was a big proponent of that theory that the conditioned souls were never in the spiritual sky and they are originating from the body of Maha-Vishnu.

I just made a simple question to that person.  When a living entity goes back to Vrindavana, then Who is his origin ? You get the point ? You are saying that the origin of the living entity is Maha-Vishnu. First question. Can somebody go back to Goloka Vrindavana from this situation ?  And he admitted, yes. When he goes back to Goloka Vrindavana, then who is his origin.  Then he himself admitted, Sankarsana, Balarama.  So, it will depend like where we are situated.  Now we are in a conditioned state.

Let us deal with this situation, where we are now.  Where we came from we won’t be able to find out from this situation.  Let us not consider where we came from.  Rather let us consider two factors, where we are now and where should we go.  Let us utilize our time to deal with these two things. Specially our present…Like Bhaktivinod Thakur’s statement in this respect:

Forget the past that sleeps and ne’er
The future dream at all
Live with the times that are with thee
And progress thee shall call

Forget the past that sleeps.  Deal with the time that are with thee, that is with you…Deal with the present.  That is the real progress, that is the real spiritual situation.

Okay, I will stop now, Thank you very much.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Gaura Premanande! Hari Haribol!

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Transcription : Krishna Dasa, Shyamal Krishna Dasa, Nimesh, Godavari Dasi, Ramananda Raya Dasa.
Editing : Ramananda Raya Dasa
Audio Reference :  click here