Srimad Bhagavatam Canto Four, Chapter Twenty Five, Text Sixteen

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto Four, Chapter Twenty Five, Text Sixteen

LECTURE BY HIS HOLINESS BHAKTI CHARU SWAMI ON SRIMAD BHAGAVATAM 04-25-16 ON 09 OCTOBER 2010.



Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya
Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya
Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 3, Chapter 25, Text 16

aham mamabhimanotthaih
kama-lobhadibhir malaih
vitam yada manah suddham
aduhkham asukham samam

aham — I; mama — mine; abhimana — from the misconception; utthaih — produced; kama — lust; lobha — greed; adibhih — and so on; malaih — from the impurities; vitam — freed; yada — when; manah — the mind; suddham — pure; aduhkham — without distress; asukham — without happiness; samam — equipoised.

Translation By His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada:

When one is completely cleansed of the impurities of lust and greed produced from the false identification of the body as “I” and bodily possessions as “mine,” one’s mind becomes purified. In that pure state he transcends the stage of so-called material happiness and distress.

Purport By Srila Prabhupada

Kama and lobha are the symptoms of material existence. Everyone always desires to possess something. It is said here that desire and greed are the products of false identification of oneself with the body. When one becomes free from this contamination, then his mind and consciousness also become freed and attain their original state. Mind, consciousness and the living entity exist. Whenever we speak of the living entity, this includes the mind and consciousness. The difference between conditional life and liberated life occurs when we purify the mind and the consciousness. When they are purified, one becomes transcendental to material happiness and distress. In the beginning Lord Kapila has said that perfect yoga enables one to transcend the platform of material distress and happiness. How this can be done is explained here: one has to purify his mind and consciousness. This can be done by the bhakti-yoga system. As explained in the Narada- pancaratrika, one’s mind and senses should be purified (tat-paratvena nirmalam). One’s senses must be engaged in devotional service to the Lord. That is the process. The mind must have some engagement. One cannot make the mind vacant. Of course there are some foolish attempts to try to make the mind vacant or void, but that is not possible. The only process that will purify the mind is to engage it in Krishna. The mind must be engaged. If we engage our mind in Krishna, naturally the consciousness becomes fully purified, and there is no chance of the entrance of material desire and greed.

[End of Purport]

Aham mamabhimanotthaih
Kama lobhadibhir malaih
Vitam yada manah suddham
Adukham asukham samam

When one is completely cleansed of the impurities of lust and greed produced from the false identification of the body as “I” and bodily possessions as “mine,” one’s mind becomes purified. In that pure state he transcends the stage of so-called material happiness and distress.

So, Kapila Muni is instructing His mother. After His father left home His mother was left by His father at His custody. He told Him to take care of His mother and His mother, who was well aware of the fact that her son is none other than the Supreme Personality of Godhead, asked Him some questions.  And in response to those questions Kapila Muni is mentioning these instructions.

Actually Devahuti’s question was very simple, very pertinent question that how can I become free from this miserable entanglement of the body? How can I become free from this dangerous situation that I am in and how can I become free from this very disgusting onslaught of the senses?  And, while answering the questions, Kapila Muni, in the previous verse made it a point that it is the modes of the material nature that causes one to become entangled in the material nature. Or when one becomes entangled in the material nature, when one is situated in the material nature, he automatically becomes subjected to the three modes of material nature.

And yesterday we discussed that actually it is the mode of passion and ignorance that causes the bondage. And when one transcends the influence of the mode of passion and ignorance and comes to the mode of goodness, he somewhat realizes the condition of the material nature, but he cannot properly understand the spiritual reality. The mode of goodness is not enough. That’s also a material mode. Goodness, if still in the goodness, it is not, it is recognizing the influence or undesirable influence of the passion and ignorance, but in itself mode of goodness is not enough to free one from the bondage of the material nature.

That is the difference between conditioned stage and liberated stage. The stage in which the consciousness of the living entity is attracted by the three modes of material nature is conditioned life. But when that same consciousness is attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one is situated in the consciousness of liberation. So bondage and liberation is simply a matter of being separated from the Lord and being attached to the Lord. When we are separated from the Lord we are in the material nature. When we are connected to the Lord we are in the spiritual nature.  And in today’s verse He is pointing out that ultimately it is a matter of consciousness and mind.

Now what is the link between consciousness and mind ? Consciousness is the inherent characteristic of a living entity. The soul is there and wherever there is a spirit soul the consciousness must be there. This consciousness is the symptom of life, meaning the consciousness is the symptom of the existence of the soul. Wherever there is a soul there must be consciousness, or we can say wherever there is consciousness there must be a soul. Is that tree conscious? And if our conclusion is yes, that tree is also conscious, then we have to conclude that there is a soul in the tree. Although to our bare eyes it may appear that a tree doesn’t have a soul, tree is not a living entity.

And that is the difference between the Vedic understanding and non Vedic understanding.  There are many other religions that accept the existence of the soul, but they do not accept that the trees and plants have a soul. What to speak of trees and plants, Christianity doesn’t even accept that the animals have souls. Like, often I find it very, very surprising that their concept of soul is so is so, so incomplete. Or they don’t actually have any understanding of the soul. Now Christianity doesn’t accept the animals have soul, do you know what the Muslims say? They say the women do not have soul! [laughter]

So the point is that they don’t understand what the soul is. They don’t have any understanding of the soul, that’s why they make such strange conclusions. But the Vedic scriptures give us the perfect understanding of the soul. What is a soul? Soul is the source of consciousness. Just as fire has inherent characteristic of light. Wherever there is fire, there is light. Or wherever there is light there is fire. We cannot separate light from fire. We may not feel the fire, we may not feel the heat, but whenever we see light we have to conclude, an intelligent conclusion will be that there is fire. Like there is this light, a layman may not understand that there is fire, but a knowledgeable person will know that there is fire. That’s what is happening. Electricity is passing through the filament and the filament is causing the resistance to the flow of electricity. And as a result of that, the filament is becoming hot, through resistance. And that
heat is generating the light. That heat is fire and it is generating the light.

Similarly when you look at the sun we may not see that sun is fire, but you know, but general conclusion is that the sun is a ball of fire. There is a huge source of fire, a fiery planet! And that’s why it is giving out light. So just as wherever there is light, we have to understand that the source of that light is fire, similarly wherever there is consciousness we have to conclude that the source of that consciousness is the soul.

So soul and consciousness cannot be separated. That is the ‘cid’ aspect. A soul is ‘sat cid ananda’. The soul is eternal, sat. Soul is imperishable, soul will never die. Na jayate na mriyate va kadacin ajo nityah sasvato yam puranah na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. So that is the nature, that is the characteristic of the soul: eternal, ever existing, ever lasting. So that is the ‘sat’ aspect of the soul.

Then the ‘cid’ aspect is the consciousness aspect of the soul. The soul is conscious and soul is constantly hankering for ananda. In its natural state a soul is anandamaya. Soul is anandamaya. Just as Krishna is anandamaya, the soul is anandamaya, but that ananda aspect of the soul is relative to its connection with Krishna. When the soul is connected to Krishna it is anandamaya. When the soul is separated from Krishna then this ananda aspect is missing. He becomes nirananda.

So these three characteristics that are spiritual and that are inherent in Krishna are also present in a spirit soul in its constitutional position. But he loses its constitutional position. He loses his constitutional position when it separates from Krishna. And the example for that is just like a spark of fire. A spark is fire, but when the spark becomes separated from fire and falls on the heap of ash, that spark loses its fiery qualities and becomes ash. Originally it is fire, but it’s a minute fire. So for the minute fire to maintain its fiery quality by itself is not possible. When the spark is separated from fire it just loses its fiery qualities. And losing the fiery quality means ash. When the fire is gone then the spark is nothing but a speck of ash. It falls on a heap of ash and it becomes ash. But actually it has the ability to be ignited into a fire, but to become ignited into a fire it needs to go back to the fire.

So similarly a living entity, a jiva, when he is connected to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he possesses the spiritual qualities that the Lord has. Isvarah paramah Krishna sac cid ananda vigraha [Bs. 5.1]

So Krishna is sac cid ananda vigraha and when a jiva is connected to Krishna, he is sac cid ananda vigraha. But when the living entity becomes separated from Krishna then he falls into Krishna’s external energy, Maya. Maya means illusion. He falls into that illusory condition and in that illusory condition he loses his original identity. And falling in the world of matter it becomes matter. It starts to identify itself with matter. Therefore a living entity, the jiva, begins to consider that his body is the self. He identifies himself with the body.

And then, again, there are two types of bodies: subtle body and the gross body. Two types of material bodies. Material nature is made of eight elements. Bhumir apo analo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca ahankara [Bg 7.4]. Mind, intelligence, false ego, earth, water, fire, air, ether. Five are gross and three are subtle. With the five gross elements he gets a gross body. This body, the gross body is made of five gross elements. Earth, water, fire, air, ether, all these elements are there in the body. This body is composed of these five elements. But beyond this gross body there is another body, subtle body, made of mind, intelligence and false ego. False ego: the first covering for a living entity. False ego, mistaken identity.
The moment a living entity comes to the material nature, or we can say, the moment a living entity looks away from Krishna, because it is minute, its consciousness is very minute. Minute means it is like a ray of consciousness.

A living entity’s consciousness is like a ray of consciousness. That ray of consciousness, ray can be projected only on one point. A living entity can project his consciousness only in one direction. It can either project its consciousness towards Krishna or it can project its consciousness away from Krishna. When a living entity projects its consciousness away from Krishna, then what is away from Krishna? Krishna’s external energy! There are only two things: Krishna’s internal energy or Krishna’s external energy. When you are looking towards Krishna we are looking towards Krishna’s internal potency. When we’re looking away from Krishna we are looking at Krishna’s external energy. And when we look towards external energy which is inferior, but jiva bhutam mahabaho yayedam dharyate jagat [Bg. 7.5].

The jiva bhuta, the living entities, are coming from Krishna’s superior energy. Living entities are coming from the superior energy of Krishna, but apareyam itas tv anyam [Bg. 7.5]: this material nature is Krishna’s inferior energy, apara, but prakritim viddhim me param [Bg. 7.5]. The internal energy is the superior energy. External energy is inferior energy. Living entities are coming from superior energy. And it’s looking now towards the inferior energy.

What happens when a superior comes across an inferior? He develops a tendency to lord over. It’s a natural tendency. As soon as a living entity comes across this inferior material nature, because he is superior it develops a tendency to lord over. Now that tendency to lord over is the cause of his false ego. It’s a ‘matter’ actually. This tendency is an influence of a certain matter called false ego, which causes the covering to the living entity. It becomes covered by false ego. False ego, he becomes covered with a mistaken identity. Instead of becoming the servant of Krishna he identifies himself to be the lord and master of this material nature. And that’s the first covering.

Then through intelligence he gets the covering of intelligence and as a result of that he begins to think how is he going to exploit this material nature. Manah sasthani indriyani prakriti sthani karsati [Bg. 15.7]. He tries to exploit this material nature. This exploitation of the material nature is the result of the intelligence or is caused by the intelligence. And how does he try to exploit this material nature? Mana and five senses, mind and five sense. Manah sasthani indriyani. So then comes the covering of the mind through which his consciousness flows towards the material direction. His consciousness now is flowing constantly towards the material direction. And that is the mind. Mind is the medium. It’s a substance which is the medium for consciousness to flow to the material direction. So this is how a living entity becomes entangled.

Now the existence aspect of a living entity is relative to its consciousness. When a living entity is conscious he is existing. When a living entity is unconscious, he is not existing. He is not aware of his existence. So when a living entity is conscious in this material nature his consciousness is flowing constantly through the mind. Now as it has been pointed out in the previous verse, condition and liberation is a matter of just a flow of consciousness in two different directions. When the consciousness is flowing towards the material direction it is a conditioned stage. When the consciousness is flowing towards Krishna that is the Krishna Conscious state, or liberated state.

So, now in the material nature the mind is flowing towards…, the consciousness is flowing through the mind. Therefore there is so much importance given to the mind. In this verse it is saying that two most important considerations for the living entity’s existence is consciousness and mind. In Bhagavad Gita Krishna is giving so much emphasis on this mind, that man-mana bhava, man-mana bhava [Bg.18.65]. Time and time again Krishna is pointing out, with your mind you think of Me. With your mind you think of Me, what does it mean? Change your consciousness. Through your mind your consciousness is flowing towards the material direction. Now you change the direction. Don’t think of matter. Don’t let your consciousness be projected to matter, rather let your consciousness come towards the spiritual direction. Think of Me. So this is actually a process of changing one’s consciousness.

Now Prabhupada is making a very important point here, is that the changing of consciousness, of mind, changing the activity of the mind from material to spiritual, is not possible by any other means other than devotional service. Astanga yoga process and other processes actually try to do that. All the other spiritual activities are actually meant to change the consciousness, flow of consciousness.

But they get caught up with some misconception. They think that it actually means to stop the mind from thinking. We can’t blame them, because the first aphorism of yoga , astanga yoga by Patanjali, is ‘atha citta vritti nirodha’, or, ‘yoga citta vritti nirodha’. The process of yoga is to stop the ‘vritti’, the activities of ‘citta’ or mind. Stop the activities of the mind. But what it actually means stop the material activities of the mind. But less informed people think now we have to stop the activities of the mind. That means stop the mind from thinking, but that will never happen! [laughs] Mind will never be able to stop thinking! Only when you become unconscious, then we can. Probably we will stop thinking when we are dead!

But still then we won’t, because the subtle body will be there and the activity of the subtle body will continue. The consciousness will be dwelling in the subtle body. Just like in a dream. We are asleep, but we are dreaming. Consciousness is still active, but on the subtle plane. There is a stage when it is complete cessation of consciousness. That is the state of ‘susukti’. That is the state of total inactivity of the soul, deep sleep, which is considered to be ‘Tamisra’ and ‘Andha Tamisra’. There is a region. When the soul goes into that region then the soul is completely inactive.

Inactive means the soul doesn’t have any consciousness, active consciousness. But that is not the desirable state. Our goal of life is not to die. But this system, or this misconception is leading them to think that, to become dead. The Buddhist, the impersonalist, that is their goal: sunya, void. Become completely unconscious. But unconsciousness, to become unconscious is not the goal of life, cannot be the goal of life. We are conscious. The goal is actually to become super conscious!

The goal of life is not to become unconscious, but to become super conscious. The goal of life is to become Krishna Conscious! So that is what one understands when one comes across a bona fide spiritual master like Srila Prabhupada. It is through the teachings of Srila Prabhupada that we became aware of these facts. Otherwise we were in ignorance also. We were in tamisra and andha tamisra! [laughs] The deepest darkness of ignorance. But Prabhupada gave us the right understanding. Citta vritti nirodha doesn’t mean to stop the activities of the mind, but to stop the material activities of the mind and develop the spiritual consciousness.

From an impure state of existence get into the purified state of existence and that is being explained by Kapiladeva here in simple words. He is saying when one is completely cleansed of the impurities of lust and greed, produced from the false identification of the body and the mind. As we considered before, the spark came out of fire and fell in the heap of ash and began to identify itself with ash. That’s what happened to us. We became separated from Krishna, falling into the material nature and began to identify ourselves with matter: this body. It’s matter. It’s not our real identity. And that’s our false identification. That is the root of our false ego, identifying our gross and subtle bodies to be ourselves.

Now as a result of identifying with the body then what is happening? We are developing lust and greed. We’re trying to enjoy by exploiting other bodies. That is what lust is. A living entity identifying himself as the gross body, as body made of matter, and he tries to enjoy by exploiting other material bodies. That is the definition of lust. And to desire to possess more and more in order to enjoy, that is greed. But these two are the basic characteristic or basic influence of the mode of passion and ignorance. Tada rajas tamo bhavah kama lobhadayas ca ye [SB. 1.2.19]. Kama lobhadayas ca ye. So here also, kama lobhadibhir malaih. Kama, lust, and lobha, greed. Adibhir. Adibhir means etcetera. Begins with lust, greed, and etcetera. What are the other ones? Anger, illusion, envy, pride. Lust, greed, illusion, envy, anger and pride, these are the six impurities of the soul.

So how to purify them? The way to purify them is, as Prabhupada explained very clearly in the purport, Krishna Consciousness! Krishna Consciousness, turn your consciousness towards Krishna. How to do that? By constantly thinking of Krishna with the mind. Consciousness is flowing through mind, but think of Krishna. That will make the consciousness to become purified. That means consciousness will be now projected towards the spiritual direction instead of the material direction. In the material nature we are having all kinds of undesirable influences and those undesirable influences will become purified by being projected properly on to Krishna. That is the beginning of Krishna Consciousness.

This terminology that Srila Prabhupada applied for bhakti, devotional service, is so appropriate! Krishna Consciousness, very simply it explains, what is our purpose, what is our goal, what is our objective. Krishna Consciousness; think of Krishna! Allow your consciousness to be projected towards Krishna. Then the rest will happen. First is ‘man mana bhavah’, and then the result of that, when mind is projected unto Krishna, then ‘tesam satata yuktanam bhajatam priti purvakam dadami buddhi yogam tam'[Bg. 10.10]. I give him spiritualized intelligence, buddhi yogam. So this buddhi yoga is the purification or proper application of intelligence. All this while we were trying to exploit the material nature with our intelligence and now that intelligence is projected towards Krishna and thinking how am I going to serve Krishna? That is the buddhi yoga.

So intelligence is purified. It all begins with mind. Mind is projected towards Krishna, then the intelligence is purified, because ‘satata yuktanam bhajatam priti purvakam’. When he is constantly engaged in devotional service, his intelligence is purified, because intelligence is thinking how is he going to surrender himself to Krishna. And when the intelligence is purified in this way and he becomes a devotee of Krishna then his…does he have a false ego? Then can he possibly have a false ego? No! His false ego, mistaken identity, has been rectified to his pure consciousness, or pure identification of himself as ‘jivera svarupa haya Krishnera nitya dasa’ [CC Madhya 20.108-109]. When he becomes a servant of Krishna he is situated in his actual identity, in his spiritual identity. Jivera svarupa haya Krishnera nitya dasa.

Now the question is, now at that state does he have a mind? Does he have an intelligence? Question is, at that stage does he have a subtle body? Does he have a subtle body? No! Now he is freed from the covering of his subtle body. He is situated in his pure spiritual identity as a servant of Krishna. So he may have a gross body, but he doesn’t have a subtle body. And that stage that means he is in his pure spiritual identity. So at that stage he is called ‘jivan mukta’, liberated stage. Although he is in his apparently material body, but he is liberated. Iha yasya harer dasye karmana manasa gira nikhilasv apy avasthasu jivan mukta sa ucyate[ Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu (1.2.187)]. Jivan mukta stage, and this jivan mukta stage or this stage is also known as ‘svarupa siddhi’, the perfection of his spiritual identity. He is now in his svarupa siddhi. He is situated now in his spiritual identity, perfected spiritual identity. Although he is in his material body, but he is a liberated soul.

And that is the state of a pure devotee. Although he is in his material body, but he is in the material body there is a pure spiritual personality. When one is completely cleansed of the impurities of lust and greed, produced from the false identification of the body as ‘I’ and bodily possessions as ‘Mine’ one’s mind becomes purified. In that pure state he transcends the stage of so called material happiness and distress. Kapila Muni is pointing out that at that state he is not affected by his material condition, his physical condition of happiness and distress, because he is beyond that. His is not being affected by a physical condition anymore, because his consciousness now is situated in another dimension, in another plane. So what is happening here through the body, he is not affected by that. So that is the sign of the liberated soul.

So Srila Prabhupada very emphatically pointed out that one can achieve that state only through pure devotional service. Not by any other means. Not by austerities, not by penances, not by astanga yoga, not by any other so called spiritual activities. The actual spiritual process, the actual effective spiritual process is Krishna Consciousness.

And we are very fortunate that we somehow found it. We somehow got it by Prabhupada’s mercy and by the mercy of Prabhupada’s devotees who have been so effectively distributing his books. And if we apply the process then we’ll see how it works. One applies the process and he becomes purified. What is the sign of purification as we were discussing yesterday? The sign of this purification is how one leaves his body, his or her body.

We were discussing about one devotee who just left. Just a simple lady, a house wife, left her body and we could see that she left in such pure consciousness, like as if she didn’t have any entanglement, any attachment to the material nature. The time came to leave the body, it’s a relief to get out of this material body and go back to the spiritual sky.

Those who properly practice the process, even though in their lifetime, they may not have achieved their perfection, but at the time of death Krishna will help them to become hundred percent purified and go back to Godhead. Because that awareness is there, although physically we may not be able to properly come to that situation or perfection, but at the time of death, by nature’s arrangement and by the arrangement of Krishna, we will see that now the time has come to become free from all the entanglement, all the attachments, and that is the consideration.

The purity as we are saying is to become free from the entanglement of material nature, not to be affected by the happiness and distress of this material nature. And that will happen only when we are properly situated in our spiritual identity. And we see, time and time again, we are seeing how this process works. How effective is this process.

Thank you very much. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Gaura Premanande Hari Hari bol!

Does anybody have any question? Yes?

Devotee: Gurumaharaja, why senses is not identified in the human as the subtle body?

BCS: because it is gross!

Devotee: senses are gross?

BCS: Yeah, see, say for example the eyes. How is it functioning? Eyes are senses. They’re one aspect of our senses. Now the eyes are seeing. Eyes interact with light or fire. Eyes interact with fire and as a result of that, it is pursuing the objects of the eyes, the form. Through eyes we see forms. Now those impressions, or you can even say those informations are carried from eyes through the nervous system to the brain segment. Now the eyes are made of matter, the nerves are made of matter, the brain centre is made of matter. So all these arrangements, or you can say the system is actually matter. Therefore these senses are matter. Same thing with our ears. The ears are made of matter. The nerves that are carrying the information are made of matter, carrying it to the brain centre, that’s also made of matter. But then, who is staying in the brain centre? The mind. And mind is registering that.

Devotee: [inaudible]

BCS: The mind is subtle.

Devotee:  the mind is interacting.

BCS: okay mind is subtle. Therefore mind is the subtle aspect of the senses.
It is the sixth sense, the mind, but other five senses are material. Mind is subtle. Yes. Hare Krishna!

Devotee: Thank you very much, Maharaja!

BCS: Hare Krishna!

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada[unclear] was mentioning how the soul is sac cid ananda and the ananda aspect is depending on the direction you go on. Can you say something more on the sat and cid, is that also dependant on this you especially mentioned ananda

BCS: yeah, yeah right. The thing is, you see, like even though we are not connected with Krishna, the cid aspect is there. Like we are conscious. The conscious aspect is there and the other two are dependant, relative to that aspect of consciousness, because our existence is relative to our consciousness.

Like, I am, because I am conscious. When I am not conscious, am I existing? Right? But in the material nature, because we are identifying ourselves with the body, that aspect of our consciousness is not eternal. Because our body is transient, perishable, therefore that is temporary. Our consciousness becomes I mean our existence becomes temporary. But the ananda aspect is a living entity because it has that ananda aspect in it, it tries to get the ananda. It tries to get ananda and the medium for getting ananda is actually prema, love.

So when one is in a conditioned stage, he tries to get the ananda through loving exchange with other entities. But because it is on the false platform, it’s never effective or is never fulfilled. So this ananda will be achieved only when a jiva establishes connection with Krishna. And the way to establish a connection with Krishna is through prema. Love is the force that causes two entities to become united. Love is actually a force that causes the unification. But the thing is, this is actually this love is actually meant to be connected to Krishna. This energy is actually meant to be connected to Krishna, but when one is oblivious of Krishna he tries to connect himself with others through this love, but, you know, the end result is not there. Therefore it is said that only when one is connected to Krishna he experiences the ananda aspect. Otherwise this ananda is restricted in the material nature in the form of happiness, or sukha. Sukha is not ananda. Sukha is cessation of suffering condition, whereas ananda is opposite to suffering condition. If darkness is suffering, then light is ananda. Now some sort of artificial means to remove darkness is sukha. Thank you. Hare Krishna!

Any other question? Okay, Priyavrata, do you have a question?

Devotee: yes, if you generalize this, this sac cid person, you were saying that ananda, what we get here is in a minute

BCS: It’s a reflection.

Devotee:  And there is an ananda Krishna, He is on the full, complete.

BCS: Right!

Devotee: and permanently. He is in ananda all the time.

BCS: right!

Devotee: we just get temporarily and we are not satisfied and then comes the misery and then we get..

BCS: right! Exactly.

Devotee: We want the fullness.

BCS: Good question. Because in anandamaya, being connected to anandamaya we become also anandamaya.

Devotee: So practical, very scientific, Maharaja.

BCS: [laughs] Yes, Krishna Consciousness is a science.

Yes, Dhananjaya?

Devotee: When you quote Bhagavad Gita sasthani indriyani, exploiting mind and senses, but not intelligence and false ego. Why only…

BCS: That is indriyana para..what is that verse? Indriya parah? Indriyani paranyahur indrayebhyo param manah, manah sastu parah buddhi. So this is like the gross material objects. From gross material objects, indriyah, the senses are superior. From the senses mind is superior and even superior to the mind is the intelligence. So you see, prakriti sthani karsati, exploiting. Who is karsati? The mind and with the mind and… with the mind and the senses he is exploiting. But intelligence is above that which is considering how the mind and the senses will will exploit successfully.

So that arrangement is made by the intelligence. That’s why it is superior. Or because it is superior it is actually making the arrangement. The mind itself or the senses itself cannot actually exploit without the intelligence.

Yes? Radha Piyari?

Devotee: Guru Maharaja, you say that when the mind is thinking about Krishna we can purify the mind but how can we also purify the gross body and how important is it in devotional to always purify?

BCS: Very good point. When the subtle body is purified, we are actually not only talking of the purification of the mind. The end result of the purification of the mind will also include the purification of intelligence and transformation of false ego, right? So that means the subtle body is purified. So when the subtle body is purified then the gross body is also automatically purified. How? As Prabhupada gave the example, that when an iron rod is placed on fire, it becomes fire, right? It becomes red hot, it becomes fire! So similarly when the pure spirit soul is existing, you know, like purification of the subtle body means what? Spiritualization of the self. Now he is a pure spirit soul dwelling in the apparently material body. Now, is that material or spiritual?

Devotee: Spiritual

BCS: So the body is spiritualized. Therefore a pure it is said that the body of a pure devotee is spiritual. It is not material. Okay, so thank you

Do you have a question? Yeah, say it. Why are you hesitating?

Devotee: You were saying the body is made of fire, are the bodies of animals made of the same process?

BCS: Yes, what do you think? Do you, when you touch an animal body do you feel the heat? Yeah? So where did the heat come from?

Devotee: From the sun.

BCS: No, in the animal body, when you touch the animal, right? Do you feel the heat in the body? Just like you touch a living body. Is it hot?

Devotee: Yes

BCS: Did you ever touch a dead body?

Devotee: No.

BCS: Okay, you know at least, it is clearly cold. But why a living body is hot? Because there is fire in the body, right? Does a body breathe? So what is that breathing process consisting of?

Devotee: Air

BCS: Yeah, air, not fire. Breathing is not through, does an animal breathe? Does an animal breath?

Devotee: Yes

BCS: So, there is air also in the body, because through breathing the air is circulating in the body. So you can see there is solid substance, there is liquid substance in the body, there is fire, there is ether and there is air and there is also ether. So yes, all living bodies, even a trees’ body is made of five elements. Trees also breathe. Yes.

Devotee: They don’t have senses?

BCS: They have their senses but not as active as your senses. The trees… Actually Jagadisa Bose, he developed a machine through which he could demonstrate that trees also feel happiness and pain.

Okay. Any other question?

Thank you all very much!

Gaura Premananda! Hari Haribol!

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Transcription : Ranga Radhika Dasi
Editing : Ramananda Raya Dasa
Audio Reference :click here

Bhakti-rasämåta-sindhu (1.2.187)