11 Sep Srimad-Bhagavatam, Canto 3, Chapter 24, The Renunciation Of Kardama Muni, Text 43.
THE FOLLOWING LECTURE ON SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM, CANTO 3, CHAPTER 24, THE RENUNCIATION OF KARDAMA MUNI, TEXT 43, WAS GIVEN BY HIS HOLINESS BHAKTI CARU SWAMI IN ISKCON UJJAIN ON 11th SEPTEMPER 2010.
Transcription : Her Grace Ranga Radhika Dasi
Editing : Ramananda Raya Dasa
Audio reference: click here
After transcribing the lecture below for several hours (about eight hours I understand), another deeply touching lecture of His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami, Her Grace Ranga Radhika Mataji skyped. I could understand she was in complete ecstacy after her day of such intense service. “This is one of Guru Maharaja’s Top lectures”, she wrote. Ranga Radhika Mataji insists that this lecture be put up (we try to put a transcribed lecture every day here on the BCS.Istagosthi and on bcswami.com) for at least a full day. It means we will leave this one up also tomorrow. These were profound comments from Ranga Radhika, I get regular ecstatic reactions like this. The nectar comes out when we focus on the vani of our dear-most Iskcon Spiritual Masters. Now we have a team of ten transcribers again. We hope and pray to maintain and increase it. We still have many, many lectures to transcribe and without failing, His Holiness Bhakti Caru Swami continuously and lovingly produces such ever fresh Nectar from the Transcendental Oceans. Who can describe or even imagine all this? Like it purpulates up in this amazing lecture below: what we are experiencing here is CAUSELESS MERCY of Their Divine Graces!!!!! ALL GLORIES TO SRI GURU AND SRI GAURANGA!! ALL GLORIES TO SRILA PRABHUPADA!!!!!
Srimad Bhagavatam, third Canto, chapter twenty four, ‘The Renunciation of Kardama Muni’, text forty three.
mano brahmani yunjano
yat tat sad-asatah paramah
manah — mind; brahmani — on the Supreme; yunjanah — fixing; yat — which; tat — that; sat-asatah — cause and effect; param — beyond; guna-avabhase — who manifests the three modes of material nature; vigune — who is beyond the material modes; eka-bhaktya — by exclusive devotion; anubhavite — who is perceived.
He fixed his mind upon the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Para-Brahman, who is beyond cause and effect, who manifests the three modes of material nature, who is beyond those three modes, and who is perceived only through unfailing devotional service.
Whenever there is bhakti, there must be three things present — the devotee, the devotion and the Lord. Without these three — bhakta, bhakti and Bhagavan — there is no meaning to the word bhakti. Kardama Muni fixed his mind on the Supreme Brahman and realized Him through bhakti, or devotional service. This indicates that he fixed his mind on the personal feature of the Lord because bhakti cannot be executed unless one has realization of the personal feature of the Absolute Truth. Gunavabhase: He is beyond the three modes of material nature, but it is due to Him that the three modes of material nature are manifested. In other words, although the material energy is an emanation of the Supreme Lord, He is not affected, as we are, by the modes of material nature. We are conditioned souls, but He is not affected, although the material nature has emanated from Him. He is the supreme living entity and is never affected by maya, but we are subordinate, minute living entities, prone to be affected by the limitations of maya. If he is in constant contact with the Supreme Lord by devotional service, the conditioned living entity also becomes freed from the infection of maya. This is confirmed in Bhagavad-Gita: sa gunan samatityaitan [Bg. 14.26]. A person engaged in Krishna consciousness is at once liberated from the influence of the three modes of material nature. In other words, once the conditioned soul engages himself in devotional service, he also becomes liberated like the Lord.
[End of Purport]
mano brahmani yunjano
yat tat sad-asatah paramah
He fixed his mind upon the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Para-Brahman, who is beyond cause and effect, who manifests the three modes of material nature, who is beyond those three modes, and who is perceived only through unfailing devotional service. So, Kardama Muni left home and he is leading his life as a sannyasi, as a renunciate. The background of this text, since many of you are attending the class today, many of you came from outside and just came here and do not know the background, I’ll just give the brief background.Kapiladeva’s father, Kardama Muni, recognized Him as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and he offered his prayers to Him. Then he wanted to leave home to observe the vow of sannyasa, and he left home. So in this respect the question naturally arises why Kardama Muni, who actually had the Supreme Personality of Godhead as his son, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was at home as his son, why did he leave Him and go to the forest to lead the life of a sannyasi, to lead the life of detachment? And in that respect it has been pointed out by Srila Prabhupada that, there are two considerations, this has also been mentioned in this verse, in this text, I mean in this chapter. There are two standards, two principles that one should follow for spiritual enlightenment. One is the instruction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the other is the instructions of the scriptures. Worshipping the Lord is naturally very commendable, worshipping the Lord, serving the Lord directly and associate with the Lord. But at the same time the injunctions of the scriptures also have to be followed, and that was the consideration of Kardama Muni. Yes, the Lord has appeared to him as his son, but he considered that the injunctions of the scriptures are also very important.
[altar curtains open] Jaya Sri Sri Radha Madana Mohan ki jaya! Jaya Sri Sri Krishna Balarama ki jaya! Jaya Sri Sri Gaura Nitai ki jaya!
Since the scriptures say ‘pancasordhvam vanam vrajet’, that at the age of fifty one should give up his material life and lead the life of detachment, so following that instruction of the scripture Kardama Muni decided to leave home. Kardama Muni’s main consideration was developing his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the spiritual sky. Now here is another consideration that comes in, Kardama Muni’s relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead was in awe and reverence. Not like Nanda Maharaja’s relationship with Krishna. Nanda Maharaja’s relationship with Krishna was in pure love. In pure love only these three relationships can develop: there is sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya. Those who are in aishvarya bhava, there are two considerations, aishvarya and madhurya. In simple words aishvarya is opulence and madhurya is sweetness, madhura. So there are two different considerations. In the aishvarya bhava one sees the Lord as the Lord: the Supreme Creator, the Supreme Proprietor, the Supreme Maintainer, the all powerful Supreme Personality of Godhead. To them God is God and the relationship there is in the mood of either neutrality or servitorship (shanta or dasya). But in madhurya the relationship like friendship, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya, these three relationships are possible, or rather you can say these three relationships are not possible as long as aishvarya bhava is there, awe and reverence is there.
Like when somebody knows that God is God, he naturally becomes His servant because jivera svarupa haya krishnera nitya dasa. [CC Madhya 20.108] But there is a very special region in the spiritual sky. The spiritual sky is known as Vaikuntha, but there is a special region in Vaikuntha, in the spiritual sky, beyond Vaikuntha. That Vaikuntha is known as Goloka. In Goloka aishvarya bhava has become subdued and madhurya has become prominent. Therefore, these three relationships are there only in Goloka Vrindavana. In Vrindavana we find pure friendship with the Lord. The devotees are related to Krishna in pure friendship. There they don’t have any consideration that Krishna is God. If they have that awareness that Krishna is God then they cannot have proper relationship of friendship because friendship takes place between equals. So who can become equal to God?
In that respect there is a consideration that friendship with God means friendship with God: treating Him, dealing with Him just like a friend. Like, Brahma became surprised when he saw the way the cowherd boys were treating Krishna. Brahma at first became very surprised when Brahma saw that Krishna killed Aghasura and Aghasura was such a terrible demon that even the demigods couldn’t kill him. Not only couldn’t they kill him, they were afraid of him! He was such a powerful demon. Even the demigods were afraid of this person and this little boy, who was only about seven years old at that time, not even seven, it was before Govardhana lila, so He was only about six years old, and this six year old boy just killed him! And not only killed him, the soul of Aghasura came out of his body, hovered on the space, until waiting for Krishna to come out of his mouth and then when Krishna came out of his mouth the soul of Aghasura merged into Krishna’s body, entered into Krishna’s body. So Brahma naturally thought, “Oh, this is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana, my worshipful Lord.”
But then Brahma started to watch Him. So after that, Krishna, along with His friends, cowherd boyfriends went to the bank of Yamuna and they just sat down, they let the calves go to graze on the field, and they sat down on the bank of Yamuna to have a picknick. And in that picknick everybody pulled out whatever they had and they were sharing their food. And they were sharing their food in such a way that one boy took a bite of a sweet and he thought it was very tasty, and he gave it to Krishna, “Krishna, see! My mother made this sweet. It is so tasty! So please have it.” And Krishna also ate it. It was his ‘jhootha’ [meaning: leftover food after someone ate]. No gentleman would take another person’s jhootha. [laughter] There is a scriptural injunction that one should not eat somebody else’s remnants. That’s a scriptural injunction. Even a gentleman will not eat somebody’s jhootha and here this boy is eating the jhootha of this other cowherd boy. Brahma’s consideration was that whose jhootha will the Lord eat? In Vaikuntha nobody dares to give his jhootha to Narayana! [laughter] And nor does Narayana ever take anyone’s jhootha. That is unheard of, unthinkable. Everybody stands in line to get Narayana’s mahaprasada but nobody ever dares to offer something to Narayana. But here these boys are freely offering and Krishna is eating! And they are stealing from Krishna’s plate. Some other boys, they saw some nice preparation on Krishna’s plate and he stole it, saying, “Krishna, look at the bird!” [laughter] And when Krishna looked at it, he stole it. So these kinds of dealings is possible only between friends, only between friends, only between equals. So how can this kind of relationship be there with the Supreme Personality of Godhead?
So, similarly, even more elevated is the position of the parents. The parents offer their love and affection to the child, as a superior. So, those who are related to Krishna in parental relationship, they treat the Supreme Personality of Godhead as their child. Like in friendship they are equal but in parental the devotee becomes superior and God becomes inferior. So, who can become superior to God? The identity or the definition of Bhagavan is asamana-urdhva, no one is equal to Him and no one is superior to Him. [CC Madhya 23.82-83] Asamana, no one is samana, no one is equal to Him. And urdhva, no one is superior to Him. So the person who doesn’t have anyone equal to Him or superior to Him, now here is a consideration that someone is superior to Him: His father! And the father treats God like a son.
So that relationship, again, is possible only in Goloka Vrindavana, not in Vaikuntha. The point is that as long as one considers the Supreme Personality of Godhead to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he cannot possibly have these three relationships of friendship, parental and conjugal. But in Vrindavana only these relationships are possible. Pure friendship. There are some areas where there is some sort of friendship. Like, in Ramacandra’s pastimes we find that Ramacandra had some sort of friendly dealings with, say for example, Sugriva. Formally He got into a relationship with Sugriva as a friend, making fire the witness they got into the bond of friendship. So the Lord accepted his friendship, but then again, Sugriva recognized Him as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and Sugriva’s attitude is like that. Sugriva never would dare to offer his remnants to Lord Ramacandra and nor will he ever dare to steal His mahaprasada from Ramacandra’s plate. [laughs]
So, although these relationships are there, but these relationships are not manifest. These relationships are not developed into maturity. Just like Vasudeva and Devaki. Krishna appeared to them as their son. But the moment they recognized that this son is actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead their mood was offering prayers to Him. In this way we can see that there are two types of relationships with the Supreme Personality of Godhead: in awe and reverence and in sweetness. Sweetness means loving relationship, love. So the point here is to have these three relationships with the Supreme Personality of Godhead as in friendship, parental and conjugal, one has to forget that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As long as one remembers he cannot have that relationship.
Now, Vrindavana is one region where the residents have forgotten that Krishna is God. It is not that they practice to forget that Krishna is God; rather, by the arrangement of Yogamaya they forget. Now what kind of forgetfulness is this? Then again there are two types of forgetfulness. One forgetfulness is out of ignorance. Like here, the living entities, the conditioned souls have forgotten Krishna out of ignorance. They don’t have any remembrance of Krishna. They don’t know who Krishna is. That is the condition of the living entities in the material nature. They forgot Krishna due to their ignorance of Him. But in Vrindavana that forgetfulness is not due to ignorance. In Vrindavana that forgetfulness is due to love.
So there is another kind of forgetfulness, out of love. When you love somebody then you forget his position. The mother of a state president, the mother of the prime minister, it’s not that the mother doesn’t know that her son is the prime minister, but the mother forgets that because of her loving relationship with her son. To the mother he is the son; he is not the prime minister. The mother doesn’t treat him like the prime minister. The mother treats him like her own son. So the relationship with the devotees of Vrindavana with Krishna is based on that love, pure love. And that love is called madhurya. Due to pure love for Krishna they have forgotten. Forgotten in the sense, it’s not important to them. It’s not that they do not know Krishna is God but to them it is not important. That is their mood. Like, even if You are God, so what? Even if You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, so what? To us what really matters is that You are our friend, You are my son, or You are my lover. That is the mood.
Now, that is the very special prerogative of Vraja due to the influence of Yogamaya. But Kardama Muni’s relationship with Kapiladeva was not a parental relationship. His relationship with God was not in parental relationship. His relationship with the Lord was in santa rasa. Those who are in santa rasa, what do they want to do? They simply want to meditate upon Him in the core of their hearts. In Srimad Bhagavatam it has been described, in Vrindavana also there are some relationships of santa rasa. Although predominantly it is sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya, but still there is some santa rasa. Who are in the santa rasa in Vrindavana? The trees! The trees of Vrindavana, the plants of Vrindavana are in santa rasa. So who are those trees actually? The trees of Vrindavana are actually great sages who have achieved their spiritual perfection in their meditation. So now they have become elevated and got the position of the trees and they are on uninterrupted meditation on Krishna. And from time to time they get direct darshana of Krishna.
So that is also another kind of perfection. Yanra sei rasa, sei sarvottama. [CC Madhya 8.83] Whatever one’s constitutional mellow is, he considers that to be highest. He doesn’t want to change. Tata-stha hana vicarile, ache tara-tama. When one from the marginal point of view one compares, then one can see that one is superior to the other. But those who are situated in the mellow, say for example, those whose constitutional relationship with Krishna is in santa rasa, he will think that santa rasa is the highest. To him that is the highest. He will not think, “Oh, why santa rasa? At least I could have gotten the dasya rasa, at least I could have gotten the servitorship.” No, they are perfectly situated in their rasa. Those who are in dasya rasa, they think that is their perfect relationship. Those who are in sakhya rasa, they think that is their perfect relationship with Krishna, and so forth.
In the spiritual sky there is no competition. In the spiritual sky there is no envy, therefore, in the spiritual sky there is no competition. Competition comes out of envy. I want to become better than you, that’s why the competition. This desire to become better is the mood of competition. Better than others. Therefore, in the spiritual sky there is no such unhealthy competition. Prabhupada pointed out in that way, the consideration will be always trying to change. From santa rasa to dasya rasa. Then we will think why dasya rasa, why not sakhya rasa? That is the material. They’re fickle. They’re not steady in their situation. They’re always aspiring for something different, something higher, because they’re not satisfied. Because in the material nature no one is satisfied, therefore they’re always trying to change their situation.
[altar curtains close] Jaya Sri Sri Krishna Balarama ki jaya! Jaya Sri Sri Radha Madana Mohana ki jaya! Jaya Sri Sri Gaura Nitai ki jaya!
In the material nature, since nobody is satisfied, therefore they are always trying to endeavor for something, thinking that, “I will be satisfied if I get that. I am not satisfied in santa rasa, therefore let me go for dasya rasa. I am not satisfied in dasya rasa, therefore let me go to sakhya rasa.” And in madhurya rasa, “I am not satisfied with one woman! Let me go for another woman.” That is the material nature. They’re never satisfied; therefore they are always running after something other than what they got. They’re never satisfied with what they got. They are thinking that the happiness lies in what they didn’t get. But the spiritual world is just the opposite. In spiritual world everyone is satisfied. Therefore the one who is in santa rasa is perfectly satisfied. “I am perfectly satisfied in this mellow.” He is not thinking, “Why santa rasa?! Let me now at least try to have dasya rasa. From dasya rasa to sakhya rasa, sakhya rasa to vatsalya rasa, and madhurya rasa.” And it won’t stop there also! In madhurya rasa, “Why these manjaris and sakhis are so close to Krishna? Why I’m so far away? Let me become a manjari! [laughs] Oh, manjari is not good enough. I have to become a sakhi. And sakhi is not good enough, I have to become Radharani! Or be better than Radharani! Why Radharani?! Why not me?” That is just a simple material attitude, materialistic mentality.
In spiritual world what happens? Generally, active devotion begins with dasya rasa. Therefore, jivera svarupa haya, krishnera nitya dasa. Devotion means loving exchange and that exchange is possible through activity. In santa rasa there is no activity. In santa rasa there is no exchange. Therefore, in pure devotion santa rasa is not been considered as one of the mellows. Pure devotion is through the loving exchange, and the exchanges take place through servitorship, friendship, parental and conjugal, that loving exchange. So this loving exchange is taking place between the Lord and His devotees through service. Therefore it is called devotional service, service! So that service is executed in one of these four mellows.
Therefore, jivera svarupa haya, krishnera nitya dasa. Dasa, servitor. It begins with servitorship. So a devotee begins his service with servitorship but Krishna awards him the other three relationships. It is up to Krishna. We cannot say, “Krishna, I want to become Your friend.” Or we cannot say, “Krishna, I want to become Your father.” Those who really want to get the Supreme Personality of Godhead as their son they do perform austerities. Like, as Prishni and Sutapa did, as did Devaki and Vasudeva. So that is possible. One may want but when they want that they have to undergo severe austerity which means depending upon the mercy of the Lord. They are not saying, “Krishna, I want to be your father.” They’re performing austerities in such a way that Krishna will be pleased and He will fulfill their desire. It is not a matter of whim that I want, therefore Krishna has to give. But otherwise devotee’s attitude is, “I am your eternal servant. [In Hindi:] Prabhuji, mein hoon dasa tuhara.” Jivera svarupa haya, krishnera nitya dasa. Ami tava nitya-dasa, bhuliya mayara pas [Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura, Gitavali, Sri Siksastakam song five] Lobhiyachhe janma janmantara.
So this is our constitutional position: servitorship to the Lord. And then He awards us these relationships. So the consideration here is, Kardama Muni, because his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead was in awe and reverence, he preferred to be in a situation where there won’t be any interruption and in the core of his heart he can constantly see the Supreme Lord. And that has been pointed out in this verse. I’ll read the verse: “He fixed his mind upon the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Para-Brahman, who is beyond cause and effect.” Beyond cause and effect means beyond material nature. Material nature is subjected to cause and effect. Everything that happens here must have a cause. The happenings are effects of causes. Cause and effect. Everything has a cause, and Krishna is the cause of all causes, sarva karana karanam. But in the spiritual world there is no cause. Therefore we use the expression ‘causeless mercy.’ CAUSE-LESS, no cause, we cannot figure out why. We cannot say because of this. Because I performed so much austerities therefore I got it. No. If at all there is any cause it is the causeless mercy. [Laughs] That is the only cause for spiritual achievements. Don’t we use that expression, ‘Causeless Mercy Of Srila Prabhupada’? ‘Causeless mercy of Krishna.’ It’s causeless. So that is the spiritual sky. Beyond the duality of the material nature, beyond the duality of cause and effect, is the region of the spiritual sky.
So, that’s why it has been described here, the identity of the Supreme Personality of Godhead has been described as, He is the Parama-Brahman, He is beyond cause and effect and He manifests the three modes of material nature. Everything is happening in the material nature due to the three modes: sattva guna, rajo guna and tamo guna. But those modes are His arrangement. Mama maya, this energy is Krishna’s maya which is endowed with the three modes. [Bg 7.14] And due to the modes of material nature everyone is subjected in this material nature in a cycle of birth and death, going through different series of punishments according to their karmic reactions.
And then he is making the final consideration, Kardama Muni. Or it has been described about him; the final consideration is that the Supreme Personality of Godhead can be perceived only through devotional service. There is no way we can perceive the Supreme Lord. He may be there in front of our eyes. He may be standing there in His original form, but if we do not have the devotion in our heart, if our eyes haven’t become anointed with love for Him, we won’t be able to see Him. The only way to see Him is premanjana churita bhakti vilocanena. [Brahma Samhita 5.38] Due to bhakti when our eyes become anointed with love, prema, then only we can see. A perfect example is Duryodhana. Krishna was standing in front of him, but what to speak of seeing Him, he was seeing Him but he was not seeing Him as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He saw Him as his enemy, saw Him as his enemy. Why? Because instead of love he had hatred for the Lord. Therefore, those who do not have love, devotion, they cannot see Him. That seeing is not proper seeing. Like we are also seeing the Deities in the temple everyday but are we really seeing Him? No, we are not seeing Him! We are seeing a stone statue. Why? Because our love is not there. Therefore, the only consideration of seeing Him is that devotion, love. And when we develop the love, then what will happen?
sthavara-jangam dekhe, na dekhe tara murti
sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti
[CC Madhya 8.274]
He sees Him everywhere. Everywhere! Through the moving and non moving objects. Inert or living, everywhere he is simply seeing his worshipable Lord, ista-deva sphurti. So that is the way to see the Supreme Lord. So that has been pointed out in Bhagavatam time and time and time again. Develop your devotion, develop your devotion. And only through your devotion you’ll be able to develop a relationship with Him. And then everything will become achieved. Everything will be achieved. If we develop our love for Krishna, if we develop our devotion for Krishna, everything will be achieved. Just as when the sun comes up, with the light of the sun we see everything. But if that light of the sun is not there, with a small little lamp, we can only see a little bit, little portion. That’s the difference, seeing through the lamp and seeing through the light of the sun. So we should try to develop this relationship with Krishna, which is simply a loving relationship. Premanjana chhurita. This prema, this bhakti is the ultimate goal of all spiritual endeavors.
Thank you all very much! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Does anybody have any question?
Devotee: Maharaja, you are mentioning about Kardama Muni, he is in santa rasa. Because God is the son of Devahuti and Kardama Muni I always thought that they were in vatsalya rasa.
BCS: Yeah, the question is then: why did he leave home? If it was vatsalya, I mean, they may have wanted the Lord just like Prishni and Sutapa, Devaki and Vasudeva. Although they wanted to have the Lord as their son but they couldn’t develop that relationship because of their aishvarya bhava. Like here, the simple question will be, relationship with the son means vatsalya, right? If it was vatsalya rasa then why did he leave home and go to the forest and meditate upon Him? The consideration of santa is meditation. Rather, he was afraid to have the Lord be so close to him at home that he may commit some offence. [laughs] So better to be in the forest and meditate upon Him as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Devotee: In this respect I remember I read in the Bhagavatam book on Hanumana. He was embarrassed to [inaudible]
BCS: Yeah, Brihad Bhagavatamrta. So they are afraid to step over, so to say. Okay.
BCS: What’s that?
Devotee: Prisni and Sutapa and Devaki and Vasudeva, Lord Ramacandra said to them I will take birth as your son but I will not drink your milk.
BCS: Okay, yeah. Here we have to understand that sometimes two personalities merge into one. So in one hand it is Prishna and Sutapa, appeared as Devaki and Vasudeva, or Devaki, but another consideration is that part of Devaki is also Kaikeyi. And as you mentioned, it is also there in the Purana, that when Ramacandra came back from the exile, from the forest after killing Ravana and rescuing Sita He offered equal respect to Kaushalya and Kaikeyi. Kaikeyi felt very embarrassed that it’s because of her that He had to undergo so much trials and tribulations and she felt a deep affection for Rama. So she told him that, “Please, bless me that someday I can become Your mother.” And He said, “Okay, I will fulfill your desire but I will not drink your milk.” And that is the aspect of Devaki. The point is in spiritual context sometimes one personality can become many and many personalities can become one. Another example of many personalities becoming one is Ramananda Raya. Ramananda Raya has been described as incarnation of Lalitadevi, incarnation of Vishakhadevi, incarnation of Arjuna (the Pandava) and also the incarnation of Arjuna, the cowherd boy. So, four personalities in one. So what’s your next question?
Devotee: In santa rasa there is no active service involved.
BCS: There is no reciprocation.
Devotee: How is it possible that [inaudible]
BCS: Yeah. Well, they are maintaining their identity as a servant. You get the point? Like, they are meditating on the Lord as a servant. The servitorship is there but is inactive servitorship. In their heart they are maintaining the mood of a servant but not actively getting involved into service. Like, that is the constitutional position, like meditate upon the Lord and derive their joy in remembering the Lord’s pastimes. They see the Lord’s pastimes. That is the sages. They are great devotees, for example, Valmiki. Valmiki was undoubtedly one very great devotee of the Lord. But what was he doing? He was meditating on the Lord, and as a result of that the entire pastimes of the Lord became manifested in his heart. And that’s how he could actually write Ramayana.
Yeah, Vrindavana? I am sorry, Navadvipa? It’s the same. [laughs]
BCS: The souls don’t merge in that sense. It’s not that many souls become one but it is the aspects of different personalities. Just like Yamaraja appeared as Vidura. Indra’s expansion was Arjuna. Vayu’s expansion was Bhima. These are expansions of their personality but in the spiritual context it happens, it can happen. And they maintain their identity, like Yamaraja is there, or another consideration is Vayu rather, because Yamaraja’s position was taken over by somebody when he came as Vidura. Aryama, yeah. But the consideration is Vayu, although…Bhima is an expansion of Vayu. At the same time Hanumana also was existing who is an expansion of Vayu. So we have to understand that the aspects of the personality come and influence that personality. It is something like empowerment. Just as the Lord empowers, not only the Lord empowers, like for example, when Ashvatthama slaughtered all the Pandava soldiers, including Dristadyumna and Shikhandi and Draupadi’s five children, then it was Lord Shiva who actually entered into his personality. It’s Lord Shiva who slaughtered them. So he was empowered actually by Lord Shiva. So similarly, Vyasadeva is empowered by Krishna, Vishnu, literary incarnation of the Lord.
BCS: Well, we have to begin with the consideration that it is inconceivable. The spiritual reality is inconceivable. And it has been pointed out, yes, a jiva cannot merge or the jivas cannot expand. The maximum a yogi can expand ultimately into eight forms. That is the ultimate perfection. But then again in the spiritual context it has been pointed out that by Krishna’s inconceivable will anything can happen. Krishna can make a jiva expand into unlimited forms. Consider, wherever Krishna’s pastimes are going on, Krishna’s devotees are there with Him. So unlimited forms of Krishna has unlimited forms of Radharani. Radharani of course is not a jiva-tattva but you can say that unlimited Arjuna is there with Krishna’s pastimes. Wherever Krishna is there, Arjuna is there. So this is how it is inconceivable. By the Lord’s will everything is possible. Yeah?
Devotee: He wants to know Radharani’s mother’s name.
BCS: Kirtida. Radharani’s mother’s name is Kirtida Sundari. Okay. And do you want to know Radharani’s father’s name? [laughter] King Vrishabhanu. [Devotee in Hindi says that he knew Her father’s name but not the mother’s name. His Holiness repeats the answer in Hindi and explains that it means she who grants fame]
Okay, Hare Krishna! Yes, Radharani? Give the mike to her.
Devotee: Guru Maharaja, about the previous question on santa rasa and your response that santa rasa is still servitorship.
BCS: Is still what?
Devotee: is still service.
BCS: Is still service.
Devotee: I was wondering, that the trees and flowers serve Krishna, the plants and the fruits of the trees serve Krishna, the flowers are used to make garlands. Indirectly they are still serving Krishna.
BCS: Yeah, right. That’s in Vrindavana. But when a sage is meditating on Krishna then there is no such active service. So yes, Vrindavana is Vraja, there everything is moving. There is no static situation. So even the trees and plants are dynamic there, Vraja. The only thing that doesn’t move in Vrindavana is Time, otherwise everything else moves. Vrajati nahi yatrapi samayah. [Brahma Samhita 5.56] Samaya, the Time doesn’t move there but everything else moves. And here only Time moves and everything else moves with Time.
Devotee: Because of the intimacy of Uddhava’s relationship as a servant and friend in Dvaraka, Krishna wants him to go more deep, more intimate and sends him to Vrindavana as His messenger and to experience especially the gopis’ love for Him so he can become more intimate. So it seems like it is possible for a soul to increase his intensity and…
BCS: Yeah, yeah, sure. But that happens by Krishna’s mercy only. It’s Krishna who
Devotee: Not by a person’s desire
BCS: Not by a person’s independent whimsical desire. By Krishna’s mercy. Uddhava was happy in Dvaraka in his relationship but Krishna wanted him to go to Vrindavana, experience that love of the gopis.
Devotee: Uddhava even entered madhurya rasa. He even changed his form.
BCS: Yes. By Krishna’s mercy everything is possible. Like for example, Brihad Bhagavatamrta where you are actually quoting from. Gopa Kumar, what happened to him? He was gradually
Devotee: But he maintained his form, he remained a cowherd boy
BCS: Oh, that way. Yeah, because originally he started off as a cowherd boy so his svarupa remained there. Like as I said, in the spiritual context it is entirely up to Krishna. If Krishna wanted He could have allowed Uddhava to be in his Uddhava like form. But the problem is, you see Uddhava’s relation in Dvaraka is of one kind, whereas Gopa Kumar, he is a cowherd boy to begin with. And he is already in Vraja. So from Vraja, from Bhauma Vrindavana, he is going to Goloka Vrindavana.
Okay? Thank you.
Devotee: I saw in the internet news that there was one baby born, he had only one body but two heads and his two heads can act independently [inaudible] How can we understand this [inaudible]
BCS: Well, you have two hands and they can act independently. [laughter] So if two hands can act independently, if a person had two heads, what to speak of two heads, Ravana had ten heads. [laughter] Ten heads doesn’t mean ten souls. Did Ravana have ten souls? The soul is not situated in the head. The soul is situated in the heart. So there is one heart and one soul. I don’t know anybody who is born with two hearts. [laughter]
Thank you! Hare Krishna!
Transcription : Vrajendrasuta Dasa www.naamhat.blogspot.com
Editing : Hemavati Radhika Dasi
Audio source: click here