Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 3, Chapter 24, The Renunciation Of Kardama Muni, Text 13.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 3, Chapter 24, The Renunciation Of Kardama Muni, Text 13.

THE FOLLOWING LECTURE ON SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM CANTO 3 CHAPTER 24 TEXT 13 WAS GIVEN BY HIS HOLINESS BHAKTI CARU SWAMI ON 8TH AUGUST 2010 IN ISKCON UJJAIN, INDIA.

SB 3.24.13
Etavaty eva susrusa
karya pitari putrakaih
badham ity anumanyeta
gauravena guror vacah

SYNONYMS
etavati- to this extent; eva – exactly; susrusa – service; karya – ought to be rendered; pitari – to the father; putrakaih – by the sons; badham iti – accepting, “Yes, sir”; anumanyeta – he should obey; gauravena – with due deference; guroh – of the guru;  vacah – commands.

TRANSLATION
Sons ought to render service to their father exactly to this extent. One should obey the command of his father or spiritual master with due deference, saying, “Yes, sir.”

PURPORT
Two words in this verse are very important; one word is pitari, and another word is guroh. The son or disciple should accept the words of his spiritual master and father without hesitation. Whatever the father and the spiritual master order should be taken without argument: “Yes.” There should be no instance in which the disciple or the son says, “This is not correct. I cannot carry it out.” When he says that, he is fallen. The father and the spiritual master are on the same platform because a spiritual master is the second father. The higher classes are called dvija, twice-born. Whenever there is a question of birth, there must be a father. The first birth is made possible by the actual father, and the second birth is made possible by the spiritual master. Sometimes the father and the spiritual master may be the same man, and sometimes they are different men. In any case, the order of the father or the order of the spiritual master must be carried out without hesitation, with an immediate yes. There should be no argument. That is real service to the father and to the spiritual master. Visvanatha Cakravarti T?hakura has stated that the order of the spiritual master is the life and soul of the disciples. As a man cannot separate his life from his body, a disciple cannot separate the order of the spiritual master from his life. If a disciple follows the instruction of the spiritual master in that way, he is sure to become perfect. This is confirmed in the Upanisads: the import of Vedic instruction is revealed automatically only to one who has implicit faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead and in his spiritual master. One may be materially considered an illiterate man, but if he has faith in the spiritual master as well as in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then the meaning of scriptural revelation is immediately manifested before him.
[End of purport]

Etavaty eva susrusa
karya pitari putrakaih
badham ity anumanyeta
gauravena guror vacah

Sons ought to render service to their father exactly to this extent. One should obey the command of his father or spiritual master with due deference, saying, “Yes, sir.”

So, this is the spiritual culture, or the Vedic culture. Vedic culture is founded on shraddha. Shraddha means to have respect for the superiors. And here in this verse Brahma is pointing out that there are two considerations of superior. One is the bodily consideration of superiority and the other is spiritual consideration of superiority. The bodily concept of superiority is the father, elder brother, uncle and all this. Those relationships are based on the body, whereas the spiritual relationships are… superiority consideration is simply on the spiritual platform. That whoever is more advanced, whoever is senior in other considerations, he should be respected.
That is the Vedic culture, and out of these two spiritual consideration is more important. Many of us have faced a very simple problem. Like, when we decided to join the Movement in many cases the father says, “No, don’t do that.” Now what should the son do?  So, the understanding is that the spiritual consideration is going to supersede. The father says, “I am your father. You have to obey my order.” But on the other hand the main consideration is that when it comes to Krishna then there is no other social consideration. Even if the guru doesn’t give Krishna the guru should be rejected.

guror apy avaliptasya karyakaryam ajanatah
utpatha-pratipannasya parityago vidhiyate
[Mahabharata]

If the guru is avaliptasya karyakaryam ajanatah, he doesn’t know what to be done and what not to be done. That means, guru’s business is to give Krishna but if the guru is not able to give Krishna, rather if guru comes in between Krishna and the disciple, then shastra says reject that guru.

There have been so many examples. One example is Bali Maharaja. Krishna Himself came, Vamanadeva, to take his kingdom away from him which he’d taken unlawfully away from Indra. So Krishna came to rectify that situation. Shukracarya, Bali Maharaja’s guru, can understand that, that this is Hari, Narayana, Krishna. And he told Bali Maharaja, “Don’t give Him. He is asking three steps of land but you don’t know what His three steps can mean. His one step can cover the entire universe”, which we had seen afterwards. So Bali Maharaja’s point was that if Krishna comes to take everything away from me, that’s my greatest good fortune. And he disregarded Shukracarya’s instruction.

Another example is Bhishmadeva. Parashurama is his guru. Bhishmadeva took a vow of lifelong celibacy. Parashurama said, “Get married to Amba.” And Bhishma told, “Look, I have taken a vow of celibacy. How can I get married?” He said that “I am your guru, I am telling you.” So Bhishmadeva’s reaction was, “No, that instruction I cannot accept because it is against the scriptural injunction. When one takes a vow he should stick to that.” So the main consideration is that father is the father, or rather let’s put it the other way around, that father is not the father, that mother is not the mother, that husband is not the husband, that guru is not the guru, that friend is not the friend if he cannot deliver us from imminent death.
Now what is the criteria for imminent death? What saves us from death? What can save us from death? Doctor’s medicine? What saves us from death? Krishna’s shelter and Krishna’s lotus feet. So that means the father must lead to Krishna, the mother must lead to Krishna, the husband must lead to Krishna, guru must lead to Krishna. Everybody should lead to Krishna, then only the relationships are proper. So that is the Vedic understanding.
Also there is another consideration that nothing should come between Krishna and…like, in this respect we find even Bhishmadeva, Dronacarya are failing on that point. They are so concerned with their ‘niti’, the morality, sense of morality. They are very exalted personalities but Bhishmadeva did not side with Krishna. He sided with the Kauravas, went against Krishna. Why? He said that, well, this is the sense of morality. But when it comes to Krishna even the sense of morality should be rejected. The morality is, Bhishma considered, my duty is to follow the king. Duryodhana is the king, therefore I must follow him, right or wrong. Same consideration was with Dronacarya. The same consideration was with Kripacarya. Although they are all very exalted personalities but ultimately they did not get the proper understanding. The real understanding is no matter whatever happens side with Krishna. Even if Krishna is wrong side with Krishna, because siding with Krishna is the ultimate right. And to go against Krishna is wrong in all respects. So that is why the understanding is pita nasasya, janani nasasya guror nasasya. So that father is not the father, that mother is not the mother, that guru is not the guru if they cannot lead us to Krishna. What to speak of when they come in between us and Krishna.

So Brahma is giving a general advice that this is the moral standard, that father must be respected. His words must be accepted without any question. But here an underlying factor is these fathers are perfect fathers. They’re ideal fathers. These gurus are ideal gurus. And the ideal father is the father who leads us to Krishna. Ideal guru is the guru who leads us to Krishna. So their words should not be avoided. And we also have to understand another thing that this is happening in Satya yuga. So in Satya yuga everyone is perfectly situated. In Satya yuga everyone is perfectly situated. In Treta yuga one leg of dharma is broken. Three fourth perfection, one fourth imperfection. In Dvapara yuga two legs of dharma are broken. Fifty percent perfect, fifty percent imperfect. And in Kali yuga dharma is standing on one leg. Three legs are broken. So seventy five percent imperfection, twenty five percent perfection, but that also is reducing.

So this is the situation in the age of Kali. Therefore, Kali yuga the main consideration is harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam. Just take shelter of Krishna who has appeared in the form of the Holy Name. That is the simple consideration for this age of Kali. So our judgment and assessment should be whoever is guiding us towards chanting the Holy Name, whoever is guiding us to Krishna we go with him. And whoever says no to that, we reject them. That is the simple consideration. And those who are innocent we give them Krishna, “Oh, you don’t know Krishna? Come, I’ll give you Krishna.” Krishna sei tomara Krishna dite paro. [Saranagati, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura] That is the qualification of a Vaishnava. He gives Krishna and that’s why preaching is so important, which we discussed yesterday quite extensively. Preaching is very, very important. But before preaching we have to practice ourselves and while preaching we have to be favorably situated. This is another important consideration. In the community of devotees everyone should be very friendly and favorably disposed to each other. Why is that? Because if we are not united then the chances are there to become divided.

Kali, the word Kali means kalaha. The word Kali means quarrel. And how does Kali spread his influence? Kali spreads his influence by creating quarrel. Karala-vadana krurah kalis ca kalaha priyah. Kali’s description has been given as kalaha priya He is very fond of creating conflict. And that’s why Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu came with sankirtana. Sankirtana means united. Kalaha means divided, sankirtana means united. Therefore we must see that when we are spreading Krishna consciousness, when we are practicing Krishna consciousness we all are very much united in our purpose. And that’s why Prabhupada very emphatically told us before leaving this planet, “Your love for me will be shown by how you cooperate with each other.” Prabhupada wanted us to show our love for him by cooperating with each other in spreading Krishna consciousness. And cooperate means, co-operate, operate together, operate unitedly, operate collectively.

So, let us make a very special endeavor to become united, otherwise the chances of dissension will always be there, because it is the age of Kali. And Prabhupada also told us that nothing can destroy this movement, it’s only the internal conflict, the fight amongst the devotees can destroy this movement. From outside nothing can destroy this movement. Rather, if the attack comes from outside the movement will become stronger, because when there is an attack from outside then there will be a tendency to unitedly defend that attack. So it will become stronger, make us stronger. But if from within we start to fight then the mission will be lost, will become divided.

Therefore it is always better to work together, work collectively. Instead of thinking, “I know the best, my way is the only way”, we should think that how we can sit together and discuss, “I am thinking this way, what do you all think?” So let us collectively make our decisions. Then what will happen? The unity will be generated. If we peacefully sit together and discuss, like we do in our meetings, various ideas come, various individuals come up with different ideas, but after discussion we decide what is the best possible thing to do for the movement, for the benefit of the movement. That is the reason for sitting together. That’s why Prabhupada actually created that structure, collective management, collective. Although we have presidents, although we have chairman of the GBC, but chairman is a facilitator. It is not that the chairman decides everything. No, chairman simply facilitates the meeting. So, this is how we have to learn to function for the benefit of ourself and collectively, individual benefit and collective benefit.

How does the quarrel or dissension or conflict start? Let us consider. Conflict starts when we think that whatever I want, that should be done. And the other person thinks whatever I want that should be done. Now if they sit together and discuss then they can come to the right conclusion. If they can discuss peacefully that, “Prabhu, I think this is the way to go”, and the other person says, “You see, like, I think this is the way to go.” And if five, six of us sit together then we can come to the conclusion what is the right thing to do. But instead of discussing, trying to understand each other’s point, if we think, “No, this is the way and it must be done”, then the trouble starts. So we must learn to avoid this kind of mentality. We should have respect for others, “Okay, prabhu, this is your opinion and this is my opinion, so if we think of it this way then…”, which actually means I am prepared to listen to you and you’re also prepared to listen to me, then only we can decide what is the right thing to do. And ultimately all these decisions should be done with proper experience and scriptural understanding.

And that’s why, I used to be very, very careful, I used to be very, very emphatic from the very beginning of this project. I used to tell the devotees that “Create that unity.” And unity is like a crystal. Based on one crystal, the other crystals form. Have you seen how the crystals are formed? In the laboratory did you notice crystal formation? You put a crystal tied in a thread, one piece of sugar you put in a sugar solution, you can try it out. One grain of sugar in a sugar solution, condensed, not saturated, even condensed. Then what will happen? Tomorrow you’ll see that it has become this big. [In Hindi:] Woh mishri joh banta hai. It’s formed like that. Now if one solution the initial grain is broken then what will happen? Instead of one crystal there will be two crystals. So similarly if in the community there are two different groups, then what will happen? Eventually these groups will become bigger and bigger and bigger and it will end up in Kurukshetra, battle of Kurukshetra, fight. So we have to be very, very careful about that.

So please create a very nice atmosphere here. We all have come with a specific mission. Everyone is coming here for what? Did we come here for our name and fame, for our personal aggrandizement? Or did we come here to promote our Krishna consciousness, develop our Krishna consciousness? So let us try to develop our Krishna consciousness. Let us try to fulfill the purpose for which we have come here. And in this respect let us see what can I do for the temple, what can I do for Krishna consciousness? Let us not think what the temple can do for me. That was a very famous speech, famous statement by John F. Kennedy when he gave his inaugural speech after he became the president. He said, “Don’t ask what the United States of America can do for you. Just consider what YOU are going to do for the United States of America.” Are you familiar with that statement? Don’t ask what America can do for you; rather, consider what YOU can do for America. So similarly our mood also should be, let’s not think what ISKCON is going to do for me, or…ISKCON can do many things for us, but spiritually, materially let’s take as little advantage from this movement. Then only this movement will grow and we give the help. Let’s not ask what ISKCON can do for us, but let’s see what we can do for ISKCON. Let’s create a very strong and powerful ISKCON where we all are related to each other in a very harmonious way.
And let’s be happy. This is another thing. If we are not happy then the purpose will be lost. If we are not happy in Krishna consciousness then instead of making spiritual advancement our heart will become burdened with pain and anxiety. So let’s create a very nice atmosphere, let’s offer our heartfelt love to others. Let’s take care of each other: “Prabhu, what can I do for you? Prabhu, how can I help you? How can I serve you?” And in this way when you create a service atmosphere, the whole atmosphere will become like Vaikuntha. I feel very happy when devotees tell me, “Oh, I went to Ujjain and the devotees treated me so nicely.” So I feel that my mission, my purpose is being served. This is why I came here; this is why I am doing whatever I am doing. But then when I see that devotees are fighting amongst themselves, there is dissension, there is conflict, then it frustrates me. Did I take all the trouble to build this temple so that devotees can just fight amongst themselves? No!

So, please try to understand what my purpose is. Why did I come here, why did I build this temple, why I am taking so much trouble to create all the facilities for the devotees and the temple. So that everyone can start fighting with each other? Obviously not.

Thank you very much. I was just thinking, yesterday I was thinking when I will have an isthagosthi this morning and the class somehow…the verse helped me to lead to a sort of semi isthagosthi this morning. [laughs] And I wanted to simply say this to the devotees that please create a very sweet, a very loving atmosphere. And whenever there is a reason or cause for discontentment, disagreement, misunderstanding, try to avoid it. Don’t allow it to grow. Because if you allow it to grow then it will become impossible to deal with it, but as they say nip in the bud. If you nip it in the bud then it will be easy to deal with.

Okay, thank you all very much!

So today again I am leaving. I have to go to Bombay today and then tomorrow I’ll go to Calcutta, day after tomorrow I’ll go to Mayapura to attend a meeting. Then on the fifteenth again I have to catch a flight in the morning from Calcutta to Bombay to catch a flight from Bombay to South Africa early next morning. In South Africa we have a conference. It is been professionaly organized. A conference where some of us are presenting different topics. Like, one of our godbrothers, Druta Karma prabhu, he came here, his thing is to defeat Darwin. Scientifically he is defeating Darwin. And Ajamila prabhu, he didn’t come here…he came here also, right. Oh right, Ajamila prabhu is presenting Vaastu and Jyotisha, astrology. Then one Ayurvedic doctor from South India is coming to present the Ayurveda. Then Caru Candra, you don’t know, he is going to present Yoga. He is a Yoga teacher from America. [audience member: he also came here] Oh right, so everybody came to Ujjain. [laughs] So Caru Candra will do Yoga. And I will present Sad Darshana leading to Vedanta Sutra and then Srimad Bhagavatam to establish the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the ultimate goal of life. First thing will be Sad Darshana leading to Vedanta Sutra and second thing will be the essence of Srimad Bhagavatam. I am not saying Srimad Bhagavatam, the point is that will be the final conclusion. The topic will be the final conclusion.
And this will be done in a conference hall, conference centre in Durban which is the biggest conference centre in southern hemisphere. It’s a very beautiful conference centre actually. So this is something new that we are doing, a new approach. So let us see how it goes. And if this is successful then probably we will start doing it in different other places. Like, when I was in London and I told them about that they immediately said let’s do it in London also. Because the expo, this convention is based on, the theme of the expo is Vedic lifestyle, the Vedic way of living. Modern way of living is leading to total chaos. So what is the solution? The Vedic way of life, Vedic lifestyle, Vedic way of living. So that’s why all these different…the Vedic lifestyle consisting of different branches of the Vedas, and ultimately the Vedic life means a life with Krishna in the centre. [Audience member: inaudible] As I mentioned Drutakarma prabhu. Oh, the local people, they’re paying. Whoever pays, they pay. It’s a whole day. We will serve breakfast, we will serve lunch, we’ll have dinner and in the evening there will be cultural program. It’s a whole day thing. Only after you spend the whole day there and then at night you go at home and sleep.
Thank you! Hare Krishna! Does anybody have any question?

Devotee: Guru Maharaja, Hare Krishna! First is that we have to side with Krishna. That is ultimate [inaudible]. In the spiritual world sometimes there are kind of conflicts between Krishna and Radharani.
BCS: Conflicts between Krishna and Radharani…[laughter]

Devotee: In the pastime of how [inaudible] comes and Radharani curses Krishna, saying that…
BCS: Okay, fine. Then when that happens what does Krishna do? Krishna goes and apologizes to Radharani. So there is no conflict. So if there is a conflict between Krishna and Radharani, side with Radharani! [laughter] Because Krishna will come and apologize to Radharani. You know who is the winner.

Devotee: I would like to ask two quotations you quoted in the lecture. The first was karala-vadana krurah kalis ca kalaha priyah
BCS: kalis ca kalaha priyah. Yeah, it is in one of the Puranas. I don’t remember.
Devotee: And also you quoted the sloka if guru is not leading to Krishna.
BCS: Guror api avaliptasya, that’s I think from Mahabharata.

Devotee: And Guru Maharaja, you said when cooperation among devotees, at the same time we are seeing in an institution there are people with different kind of motivations also do come in. It is not that everyone is coming only for the sake of pure devotional service. So, it seems that on one hand they have other motivations. In such a case naturally people with different kind of motivations act like acid and alkaline. They react. They can’t stay together. I mean, someone has a particular motivation cannot exist with someone who has a different kind of a motivation. There is bound to be at least some kind of reaction. How do we avoid that?

BCS: How do we avoid that. Prabhupada did say the unity in diversity. There may be diversity among individuals but we should become united in spite of our differences. How to do that? Like one thing Prabhupada said is that if somebody cannot work together with some temple, in that atmosphere, he can go and start his own temple. Prabhupada allowed that. Prabhupada allowed, okay, but don’t create conflict. Just, you know, if you can’t work here go somewhere and start. Like there was a person called Siddhasvarupa in Hawaii. He himself had a big group of followers. He surrendered to Prabhupada and he could not function with the other devotees. Prabhupada said, okay, let him carry on, on his own. Main thing is that we should not conflict. Like, if I can’t work here I can go somewhere else. If there is fighting let me just separate. So I am not separate in that way. Let me go somewhere where I can do something. The whole world is vast. There is no dearth of place to preach. There is no dearth of place to promote Krishna Consciousness.

Yes, Steve?
Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. You mentioned that we give Krishna to the innocent, and I remember one of the ten offences is instructing a faithless person on the Holy Name.

BCS: Innocent is not faithless. Innocent is not faithless. Faithless is offender. Innocent means he doesn’t know. But offender means, he knows and still he is not accepting.

Devotee: How do we know that?
BCS: At least be cautious. And if somebody is offensive the moment you realize that he is offensive you just avoid. But sometimes for the sake of preaching you may smash the guy, for other’s benefit so that they can benefit. You can smash an offender but don’t preach to the offender. Like, once Prabhupada was giving a lecture in Bombay in a big pandal and somebody was becoming very offensive. Prabhupada just kept on smashing him. And Prabhupada used to often do that. He smashed people so heavily. And finally Prabhupada was so heavy on that person and ultimately the whole crowd became so angry with that person they carried him and threw him out of the place. Sometimes for the sake of preaching one may take some course of action. Now by doing that what Prabhupada did? Prabhupada increased the faith of others.
Any other question? Yeah, go ahead, Navadvipa?
Devotee: What you said that Prabhupada, Maharaja said that sometimes if there is a conflict and the conflict continues and the person can start his own temple or his own activities under the branching of the main organization. So, as a matter of fact that is an impetus to growth. The conflict terminates in a positive way. For that person utilizes the energy, you know branch off on his own. Is that okay?
BCS: Yeah, sure. As you put it, it’s quite aptly put, that Prabhupada took that impetus towards growth. But by doing that one will become experienced and then you will become united. You see, when you go through the difficulties yourself, then you learn. And by doing that you mature and then you’ll learn to cooperate eventually.

Devotee: And eventually it leads to growth.
BCS: Eventually it leads to growth but at the same time the growth should be harmonious. Not that you grow and then start to fight.
Devotee: No, that will be negative then. That is not branching off, that is, you know, splintering.
BCS: Yeah, right. And we hope that even when there is some conflict, dissension, eventually it will be harmonized. Yes?
Devotee: [question in Bengali]
BCS: Why aren’t you learning English? [Speaks in Bengali]
Devotee: [in Bengali]
BCS: The question is that sometimes we have deep attachment to our parents. Now how to overcome that? My answer is try to make them understand about Krishna consciousness. Make them into devotees. Then they’ll appreciate that you have become a devotee.
[Bengali conversation between devotee and BCS]
BCS: The answer is what to do with the attachment if they’re attached to us too much. No matter how deep our attachment is when we die where goes our attachment? Can we maintain our attachment? So we have to make them at least understand, at least now you can see me, if I died then you won’t get to see me. Now at least you can see me from time to time if you want, and if you become a devotee you can see me anytime.
Devotee: Guru Maharaha, sometimes I find I am incapable of smashing the offender.
BCS: incapable of?
Devotee: [inaudible]
BCS: leave that place. Leave that place.
Devotee: [inaudible]
BCS: Leave the place! [laughter] It is something like if someone is stronger than you, do you go to fight with him? What do you do? Only when you are stronger than him, then you can challenge him. But if you can’t defeat him then leave because if he defeats you it is a defeat for Krishna consciousness. So why should you allow your inability to besmear the reputation of ISKCON? At the most you can tell him come to the temple, I am not so advanced but the devotees are there in the temple, you can speak to them. If you have any question, if you have anything.
Devotee: [inaudible]
BCS: Then you should go and ask Bhishmadeva and Vyasadeva. [laughter] if you want to decide over and above them. That’s what has been pointed out. The thing is what should we do? He took a vow that he will be a lifelong celibate and the guru says no, get married. What should he do? I don’t know what you would’ve done [laughter], but that’s what Bhishmadeva decided to and everybody appreciated that.
Devotee: [inaudible]
BCS: Huh?
Devotee: [inaudible] laughter
BCS: Well, if you have taken a vow of celibacy and your spiritual master tells you to get married, then yes, you can disobey the spiritual master. [laughter] But what about the other case scenario: when you want to get married and the spiritual master says no, then what you’ll do? [laughter]
Yes?

Devotee: Out of a great, intense desire to serve one may apparently disobey an instruction like we see in the case of Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura. Gaurakishora Dasa Babaji Maharaja told him not to go to Calcutta, but then he went and he preached and also at the time of his passing away he asked him for his feet to be tied and dragged around the streets, which he didn’t do.

BCS: A very advanced devotee knows the real…you see, sometimes the spiritual master may say something to test the disciple. But the disciple knowing the heart of the spiritual master he acts in a certain way. That’s not disobeying the spiritual master. An advanced devotee is not a fool just to accept every statement literally.

Devotee: The conference that will be held in South Africa, will other people have access to this material which is presented there?
BCS: Yeah, and this morning only I was thinking to make sure that it is telecasted. It is available in telecast.
Devotee: Telecasted and also CD’s will be available?
BCS: That they will It is being organized by a professional group.
Devotee: Although we have access, if you don’t have telecast you will not be able to see.
BCS: You can come to South Africa. Okay, I think it will be telecasted. Okay, I’ll send the message here. And at the end of the thing I am sure there will be a book and CD’s, DVD’s.
Devotee: I would please like to have one copy.
BCS: Sure, sure. Okay, Mitra Vrinda? Three questions, Mitra Vrinda?
Devotee: [inaudible]
BCS: That’s a big challenge the local management has. Let us see how they handle that.
Devotee: [inaudible]
BCS: Yeah, that’s what I meant. Yeah?

Devotee: [inaudible]
BCS: No, you are not taking. Whatever you are taking is only Krishna consciousness. And that you are coming and helping the temple in so many ways, that is the contribution that you are making, right?

Devotee: [inaudible]
BCS: You see that’s why the management’s business is to see that this does not happen. The conflict doesn’t happen. That is the most important responsibility of the management or the leadership. So that is a big challenge they have. Like, they have to figure out how to overcome these problems. Each case is different. Like, you can’t generalize. But generally what we have to do is create a very nice and conducive atmosphere, and also another thing I emphasize in that respect is that the management structure, the authority structure has to be respected. If that structure is bad there is a way of reforming that, but in general we have to abide by the authority structure. Like, for example, when the government is in power you have to go along with the government’s decisions. But if the government is bad then after four years or five years you get the time to re-elect the government. That is there. But generally, you can’t. That will become a case of revolt, revolution. Revolution is not desirable.

Devotee: [inaudible]
BCS: Withdraw…that should not make you withdraw from Krishna consciousness. That is why I am just making that point. See, the purpose of our coming here, like let us just paint one possible case. The purpose of our coming here is to promote Krishna consciousness, to get local people to come. But if we start fighting among ourselves, and as a result of that if the local people stop coming here, then what’s the point in being here? What’s the point in coming here? So that’s why what we have to do is, we have to deal with our internal problems. Devotees should not fight, because that will spoil the whole purpose. And as I said, the fight takes place when both the parties don’t want to give in. One party says this is my way, another party says no, this is my way. Then these begin to fight. But if we have the openness that, well, prabhu, let us sit down and let’s discuss and see, then the chances of dissension and conflict will be reduced considerably. And another thing is that, as I said, the authority structure has to be respected. Because if the respect for authority structure is not there then there will be problem. That is one thing I very strongly propose, that the authority structure has to be maintained. Now, if the authorities are bad then let us try to rectify that, but not that we defy directly against the authority.
So, I think I exhausted three questions. I even gave Angada a chance, the fourth question. Anyway I gave him a chance because it sounded he had something to say in relation to what Mitra Vrinda said. Okay, exception.
Devotee: [inaudible]
BCS: They are demigods actually. They are sort of demigods.

Devotee: Kali himself is sinful?
BCS: Kali himself is not so sinful but he promotes sin. The description is there in the Puranas that Kali is the, actually it is in Bhagavatam also, Kali is the son of envy and anger. Kali is the son of envy and anger. And you will notice whenever there is envy and there is anger, there is quarrel.
Okay, thank you all very much! So I’ll see you all just before Janmastami, and prepare Janmastami very nicely. Lakshminatha got the responsibility to organize the Janmastamis. Lakshminatha organized the Ratha Yatra very nicely and as a reward for that he is getting the opportunity to organize Janmastami also. [audience: Haribol!]
Hare Krishna! And be good, chant your rounds nicely. That’s another thing. If you chant your rounds nicely then Kali will run away from there. If you have kirtana together, if you chant your rounds nicely, if you follow the principles nicely, if you read Prabhupada’s books and follow his instructions, then you will make such nice spiritual advancement that just by seeing you Kali will run away.
Hare Krishna! Gaura Premanande! Hari Haribol! And children, don’t fight! Okay? [laughs]

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Transcription : Her Grace Ranga Radhika Mataji
Editing : Ramananda Raya Dasa
Audio-reference : click here